What NOT to do on a Coffee Date with Dating Intelligence
Episode Notes
Dating Intelligence joins the coffee date conversation and we're going to start with Jamie Villamor. She is an amazing and gorgeous runway model. She's also graced covers on Cosmopolitan, Glamour and Marie Claire. She's also a sponsored competitive pistol shooter, an actress and an entrepreneur. And after doing a little little more research on her, I also noticed that she has a bachelor's in education, and a master's in art and design. So she is like a renaissance woman. I really love all these things about her. And Chris, to my audience I met at Podfest, which was a conference for us podcasters. He is also a model, tennis pro and relationship expert! We talk about the coffee date, what's your best story? First kisses, the Coffee brunch date, Friendzones, what not to do on a coffee meetup and more.
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Transcript
Holly Shannon 0:06
Hello coffee lovers. So why am I here? My love of coffee started with my grandparents hiding coffee candies in their pockets. Finding those little rap treasures ingrained that flavor into my memory, along with a sense of love and connection. We're all drawn to the experiences that shape our lives. Coffee has those stories. It invites that connection. It's probably why cafes around the world are packed. Do you want to feel the energy of people and wrap our hands around a hot cup of connection? Enter the coffee meetup, coffee, the consummate excuse. You might not even drink it. But it's a tool of figurative concept of vehicle to connect. Coffee Culture, the podcast is your new place for that drill be short episodes, and full interviews. Come for the coffee meetup and stay for the connection. I'm your host, Holly Shannon. Hello coffee lovers. Welcome to Season Five. What was once culture factor is now coffee culture. And I designed to this show because I really wanted to focus on connection with people and why we use coffee to connect right. So I have two amazing people here from dating intelligence. And I'll put all of the relevant links in the show notes in case I forget, say that at the end. And we're going to start with Jamie Fillmore, who I don't know as much about but we're going to learn about her. She is an amazing and gorgeous runway model. She's also graced covers on cosmopolitan glamour and Marie Claire. She's also a sponsored competitive pistol shooter, an actress and an entrepreneur. And after doing a little little more research on her, I also noticed that she has a bachelor's in education, and a master's in art and design. So he is like a renaissance woman. I really love all these things about her. And Chris, to my audience I met at pod fest, which was a conference for us podcasters. And we just really clicked right Chris, we met in the hallway. And immediately no hallway in the hallway. And then we and what do we do? I think we spent four solid hours like working on our businesses together and just ideating and creating content for like four hours or so. Roughly,
Chris Louis 2:57
I realized that business came to us which is great. So we didn't have to move out of one spot which we sat there for actually stood there for four hours, which is amazing.
Holly Shannon 3:06
And we went on to do some other things together. We'll get into that. But Hello, Welcome to Coffee.
Jamie Villamor 3:12
Hi. Glad to be here today. Yeah, I'm glad to be doing your show this exciting.
Holly Shannon 3:18
This is so great. And I'm like rebooting it. So it's it's actually comfortable to have a friend you know doing it with me. So I'm pretty excited that and
Jamie Villamor 3:27
you've had your show for five seasons. Yeah, yeah. Wow. That's amazing.
Chris Louis 3:32
Thank you. We're like still beginners compared to her.
Holly Shannon 3:37
wouldn't say that. I think you guys have been in front of the camera much longer than I have because you both are model so Chris, I didn't even get to say that you are also a former runway model, and a relationship expert and a tennis pro. So you are pretty cool.
Chris Louis 3:57
No, I love you honey. Thanks for saying that. You could see me blushing it'd be probably watching right about
Holly Shannon 4:06
the color of your cup right there maybe
Jamie Villamor 4:11
what's in that cup? It's not coffee.
Holly Shannon 4:13
Yeah, seriously? Let's let's start with that question. So Chris since Jamie's sipping something right now what do you drink? Do you drink coffee? I mean when we were on our retreat I don't remember you drinking
Chris Louis 4:25
coffee yeah you know it's like it's funny that it's very strange I don't drink like coffee like that's made like at a home per se it's like a more like the out of the what is it? Like coffee shop kind of guy like I want I'm a latte guy and fancy little white because I don't like if I have too much expresso it Lily espresso espresso. It really makes me like jittery and stuff. So I shouldn't be ordering decaf all the time, which I never do. Because I want to be like everybody else all the cool kids. So I ordered like espresso and the next day I sit there and just kind of shake. Like I'm just like this the whole time which is not good for anybody. So, but I do like the taste bid and I always for some reason I always order a large when I'm at like Starbucks coffee beans, some of the top ones like Oh, give me a large and I'm only doing like a sip of it and then um, you finished your coffee this
Jamie Villamor 5:08
morning. No, I
Chris Louis 5:09
didn't know that was that was a tea though. And I only drink like a latte. That's true, but I only drink like probably like maybe half of it. And then I'm done. It's just more like the taste of being a connoisseur likes to hold the cup. I think that's probably right. How I just be cool.
Jamie Villamor 5:24
Yeah, you weren't. And I finished mine in like five minutes. And then I was looking at our guests like, are you?
Chris Louis 5:31
There's coffee drinkers and then there's coffee posers. I feel like I'm in the coffee poser phase.
Holly Shannon 5:36
All right. Do you drink any like alcohol with coffee like an Espresso Martini or bourbon that's been like, infused because
Chris Louis 5:44
once again, it's like coffee. It's gonna get me too jittery. That's why for my liking as a jock and Diet Coke and I say diet even though it's probably is not as good for you as regular Coca Cola but regular Coca Cola really gets me once again. Too much caffeine just gets me all crazy.
Holly Shannon 5:58
Yeah, we don't want to see Chris go crazy.
Chris Louis 6:00
That's why the workshop Holly Why didn't drink coffee that more because I would have been buzzing up the walls bounce around paint like a little five year old.
Holly Shannon 6:06
You do you are high energy without without a doubt you are high energy. So in your defense, I can understand why you stay away from caffeinated beverages. We'll let you get away with it this time. Thank you. Jamie. Are you a coffee drinker?
Jamie Villamor 6:19
Yes, I'm I'm like the complete opposite of him. I can have like a full cup of coffee and go right to bed. So I'm like the person that sits in bed with like a warm cup of coffee, especially in the winter. And then I'm like, out for the count. So I feel like caffeine doesn't. Right, right. Like I could drink coffee all day long.
Holly Shannon 6:38
So then you go ahead. Am I
Chris Louis 6:40
right to say that tea has more caffeine sometimes than coffee? Is that right?
Holly Shannon 6:44
Or? No? It is lower.
Jamie Villamor 6:46
I mean, I'm drinking. I'm drinking a tea right now. But I think so I'm trying to like transition and remove like a lot of the coffee and kind of transition into a tea but it's really hard for me because like a coffee drinker from like, such a young age.
Holly Shannon 7:02
Okay, so wait, let's go back. I want to go back to the young age. So when was your first sip?
Chris Louis 7:10
Careful, Holly, you're talking to you relationship people?
Jamie Villamor 7:12
16. Probably like high school. For sure. Yeah. And
Holly Shannon 7:16
was it with like your family? Like did they make coffee or like I want to try it? Or were you like you're in high school like for you know, you're driving someplace and you're like, let's go to Dunkin Donuts and
Jamie Villamor 7:26
Oh, no. Um, no, I never had coffee. Like at coffee shops. It was my mom. So I grew up smelling coffee, because my mom made it every single morning. So yeah, just probably started at home. Folgers was huge back
then probably making a comeback. You know?
Holly Shannon 7:45
You know? And then finally, it's part of like a habit.
Chris Louis 7:48
Yeah, that's right. And you know, it's funny you say that I there's something on NPR the other day talking about the Folgers the brand and coffee back in the day without the people used to make it home is that it's not it's still the number one brand coffee that people make at home. But at the same time, though, it's just it's just not good for you. They're saying but you know, because it's just like, You know what? You poured in the filter, and it's just not really great coffee brand.
Jamie Villamor 8:10
Right? Right. Yeah, I have a Chemex at home. So I'll grind my own beans. And that's different. Yeah. Make it Yeah,
Chris Louis 8:19
right. Right. So so they're saying that they're trying to rebrand Folgers, because it's still the number one branded coffee at the store. And a lot of people now because we go out and get our coffee or espresso with an espresso or coffee pods or whatever it is. It's so much easier than brewing coffee, which is still the strongest, I feel like it's just strong as hell. And that's for me, like you're asked her what the first time she had coffee was my first taste was a black coffee. Because, you know, I was probably in college and I was like, I'll take a black and I was like, took a sip. And I was like, you know, and I literally probably just stayed up for 10 days in a row over that. Yeah, over that. So since sanity,
Jamie Villamor 8:55
I'm like the I like a little bit of coffee with my cream and sugar in it has to look a certain color. Alright, I want to drink it. So if it's too dark, like I'm not touching it like it has to be like that Carmeli light color, because then it just looks creamy and delicious. Real cream, our flavor. I'll look at it and be like, Oh, no, I should try the like half and half and do like a real cream. But I like all the flavored creamers. But now I've transitioned into silk because it doesn't have the carrier gene in it. Oh, that's great. So I love the nondairy no carrier gene and silk.
Holly Shannon 9:40
Nice. All right, Amer and you said you're right. And last question. You said you grind your own beans. Is there a certain time that you like?
Jamie Villamor 9:48
No, I love trying a bunch of different so anytime anyone goes anywhere out of the country? I'm like, Oh, if there was like a good coffee, bring me back. Oh, that's good coffee beans.
Holly Shannon 9:57
It's great. Yeah, that's a good gift to ask for him. I'm gonna copy that. I'm still. Yeah, like,
Jamie Villamor 10:03
your friends that travel like outside of the country or like even different areas. Find the best coffee beans in that area. Okay. I love that. Yeah. Alright,
Holly Shannon 10:16
so we've talked about brew, okay, because it's about coffee. And we usually come together to have coffee, right? But I want to talk about the meet up part of it. And since I have the two experts sitting here from dating intelligence, have you used the coffee date? As sort of that segue into getting to know somebody? And did you do it? Because it felt a little safer? You know, you weren't hooked into dinner and a whole night out? No alcohol involved? Like, shoot, let me know. Let me know what you've done. You want to answer that?
Jamie Villamor 10:49
I'm sure I'll, I'll take that one. So I avoid dinner at all costs one, because when you first meet someone, the last thing you want to do is really eat in front of them. Like for me anyway. And I don't know if I want to sit with you for like two hours through a dinner. So I think coffee is is definitely an easy segue for a first meeting just to get to know someone and decide if you want to, like spend more time with them. Yeah, it's funny how times have changed because you could go in for a coffee and then you're kind of in and out. And it limits the time versus the length of time that you need to spend having a dinner with someone and I feel like dinner is a lot more intimate. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah, but it's something you have to kind of earn It's
Chris Louis 11:35
funny though, because that used to be the the norm standard of like, you know, you do like what was it it same dinner and a movie back in the day. And it's just like, I wonder just what you just said on how why coffee dating is so much easier because it is limited time you and you can actually it's not like so much pressure and you're not eating in front of someone. But the dinner in the movie date back in the day was so weird, because it's like you're taking someone on a first date to the movies. And yet, I wonder, right, but I'm wondering if the guy is just spinning his head on how he's going to
Jamie Villamor 12:05
make the move on this road. I'll likely put my heart around. Like what do I do? Like do I hand on the lake? You want some butter in the popcorn? Like my kids always telling me they're like, Whatever you do, do not go on a first date. And have it be dinner.
Chris Louis 12:20
Yeah, I just think that's just time wasted. To me. time wasted. I like for me my first dating back in the day before I started doing the coffee shop thing was, was just going for drinks. You know, you go to a bar and you'd meet whatever person if I don't drink? Well, that's true. But I'm saying like coffee shops. Like I mean, Holly, you'll know the answer. This. I mean, went to coffee shops really started getting super popular. I mean, I would say more like the 90s or early
Jamie Villamor 12:42
late, I would say within the past like, what, five years?
Chris Louis 12:47
No, they've been around for a long time like that. I'm just saying like, yeah, they've been around,
Jamie Villamor 12:51
but I feel like it wasn't as trendy. Like right now. There's like a lot of like, really cool and eclectic little coffee shops. Yeah.
Holly Shannon 12:58
Okay. They're like trendy. The oldest one was in 1720,
Chris Louis 13:06
our expert
Holly Shannon 13:09
I know, that was back in Italy. And it was adopted throughout the different cultures in different countries. So like, in France, it was like Cafe Society, like, yeah, the shops were Cafe Society. And, you know, intellectuals and artists and people would, you know, get together politicians, and they would meet at coffee houses. So, like, maybe we'd like to think like we sort of invented it. But we just maybe recreated it a little differently, I think with the onset of the internet, so it became like internet cafes, and people would flock to them to like, work and hang out with friends. And maybe we think we're reinterpreting it, but we're really not. It's kind of the same thing. It just includes a laptop now. I don't know,
Chris Louis 13:59
right? Yeah, no, that's a good point. I feel like you're right, though. Like it started with as far as my generations with the, with the Internet. You're right, because it was a way just to go there just to be as a meeting spot, just to kind of be cool doing whatever you're doing. You know, we used to go to like, for instance, Earth Cafe when I first moved to LA. By the way, that's the first place that I went because I knew all the cool like celebrities hung out there. So I used to go to Earth Cafe just to like, Yeah, I'm an actor model and I'm reading the script right now would sit there and do nothing. Oh my god, you know, because I didn't drink coffee. So I just kind of look for the coffee sitting there in the big room. The big giant mugs and the big mug just sit there like stir my with a little swizzle stick. No, I never touched it. Oh Mike because I knew I'd be Alterac I would literally be like too much shaking. So what good am I going to shake and try to do a
Jamie Villamor 14:46
decaf? That's the thing I never did better with lemon. Sometimes that's for weak people decaf. strong coffee,
Holly Shannon 14:56
drink for coffees but doesn't count.
Chris Louis 14:58
And I look the part though. See the part
Holly Shannon 15:01
you want to be seen? You know and be seen. So fake it, why not? Yeah, not.
Chris Louis 15:07
So like getting back to your thing Hollywood relationships, though, with everyone that we've come in contact with now on dating apps and things like that, I feel like coffee shops are huge for this situation now, because I was going to tell you about a friend of mine, which we talked off air, but I wanted to share this with you on air is that she was on a dating app. And she was in her residency at the time. So she's just going through a doctor and all that stuff like that. She said, I literally do not have time to meet with people, if someone likes and we match up right away, instead of going through the whole rigmarole on the dating app, she goes, let's just meet at a coffee shop, she goes because it can be 10 minutes, five minutes, if I don't like them, I'm gonna walk out I'll get my coffee sit with you for a second, like, you know what this isn't working out. And she'll just walk right out. So she used it as a way just to meet and greet quickly. She said if she liked them, she would stay a little bit longer that was sold. But for the most part, she didn't have time to go through the whole Hey, texting, back and forth on that stuff. She literally said, Let's meet at a coffee shop. Let's meet let's go from there. So I know it became it's a huge culture thing now that people go to coffee shops to meet up. And so when I go to coffee shop now I'm literally sitting there looking around and seeing who's on their first meetups and things like that. And you can kind of tell sometimes, yeah, you could tell. You can always tell because the person is kind of hunched over their little coffee with their I can tell I mean, I literally do this, they should do that after this, we should go there, it's, it's a lot of fun. That's a lot of fun. Because like the person's hunched over their drink, and then the person who actually may be set up as always the one sitting back kind of cool. Where the person who they're meeting is usually hunched over their drink, because they're trying to decide if they're gonna stay long enough or not. So
Holly Shannon 16:40
you don't think cool is if you guys put little like lavalier mics on yourself at a coffee shop, and hat and like recorded it like observing people and trying to guess like, ooh, table number one looks like it's a first date. It's that kind of thing, and then did
Chris Louis 16:57
a whole commentary. Yeah, I
Holly Shannon 16:58
think she's gonna leave. Is she getting up? Is she getting out?
Chris Louis 17:02
Totally. Lawsuit for Jamie
right? Now, here's the real question. Do you feel like coffee shops are more used during the evening for this situation nowadays versus like, during the day?
Holly Shannon 17:13
You know, I would say during the afternoon, I feel like it sets expectations. You know, a lot of people like they're afraid to go at night, because, you know, it leads to it's too close to dinner, like and if they don't, if they want the out, they're not going to get they can get it at three in the afternoon and be like, Hey, I gotta get back, I got a little bit of work to do. Or I'm meeting my brother for dinner kind of thing. But if they meet for coffee at seven o'clock at night, sometimes it's harder, right? I mean, you guys are the experts, you probably would know better than me. But I would think it'd be easier during the day than it would be in the evening.
Jamie Villamor 17:49
The afternoon is definitely a better out. Yeah. So I think that's why like a lot of people will choose to do that for like a first meetup. Because it is easier to make up excuses. If you don't want to shoot straight with them and just say, Hey, I'm not interested, then, you know, hey, I have to get back to work or Hey, x, y and z versus like, if you're out at dinner. Yeah, right. Where are you going? Yeah. Unless it's like an emergency. Oh, I'm sorry. Go ahead, Chris.
Chris Louis 18:16
God, I was gonna say I've known a few people that have actually rolled it into night, like to their happy hour and after that sort of thing, because if you're interested time, yeah. Yeah.
Holly Shannon 18:26
Somebody asked this question, I was scrolling through Tik Tok like the rest of the world. And there was this girl talking about how she was meeting somebody for a coffee date. So I wanted to look what your reaction would have been to this. So she gets there. And the line is really long. The guy had already gotten himself a cup of coffee and was seated waiting for her. And so she was aggravated, because she felt like, okay, we're meeting for coffee. So now we're not even like, standing online together, where we could kind of chat and, you know, suffer through the lunch, dinner. And he's sitting so like, as soon as she gets there, he's kind of like, well, yeah, the line was really long. So I got my coffee. And yeah, I guess I shouldn't really get up from the sea, because then we'll lose our table. So like, I'm curious, like, what would have been your reaction? Would you have, like, gotten online to get your coffee and just gone through with it? Or would you have left? Three strikes?
Jamie Villamor 19:28
He's out. One, he should have texted her and been like, Hey, I'm in line. Let me know what you like. So I can grab it for you, too. He completely missed an opportunity to spend more time with her by being in line together and three, who cares if they lost the table? They lost the table together and they're still together, getting to know each other. So I would have walked right. I wouldn't waste my time with someone like that.
Chris Louis 19:49
Yeah, I concur. That guy's an idiot. So
Holly Shannon 19:54
it's kind of like, that's the
Chris Louis 19:56
thing because he's showing his true colors already as it is. It's like if he can't even like stand up you Even if he did it, even if he got his coffee, let's say and he didn't call her beforehand, and she's in line, he should have gotten up and started with her. Or wait, I'm sorry for me, I would have said, hey, what can I get? You want to use it, and I'll go get it for you. But you want to try to
Jamie Villamor 20:15
if she's really interested, she was going to stand with Esther and not just sit at the table and dick around on her phone or whatever the case may be. But, um, I like being a female. If I if I got there before the guy, I would have stood in line and said, Hey, I'm in line, let me know what you want. I sent him a picture of the menu. I wouldn't even feel comfortable like sitting with my coffee while someone stood in line. Especially some of the first time as well. Yeah.
Like, how could he even feel comfortable? Like sit like How selfish
Chris Louis 20:47
Yeah, that's why I said excuse my language, but he's an idiot. Yeah, like said that she should have just nixed that right away.
Jamie Villamor 20:52
Right. Lock in. And I'd walk right back out. Yeah, like, Yeah, this is a no go.
Chris Louis 20:58
I told you about Holly, the, the cool coffee shop that's here in town that I met Jamie Lynn, that therapist and I was meeting my intern for the first time that does our show as well. So I had her meet me at this coffee shop before, you know, the guests came on. And literally, like, as I'm sitting there waiting for Sidney walks in and I gotta say, hey, what can I get you? So I get in line for her. And then I sit back down Jamie walks I get in line for her. And that's just the etiquette of it all, you know, it's so it's just like, you know, you get up into your shit, dude, don't just sit there. Well,
Holly Shannon 21:27
and also, I think like, even at checkout, when it's time to pay, you see, like, is he gonna like pick up the tab, and also how he treats the server, right? Like the the barista, or the person behind the register says a lot about the person I feel like,
Chris Louis 21:44
right, but a tip if they don't tell. But once again, you know, that's that's the skewed part of coffee dating, in theory, because of the fact that each person at this moment is probably thinking just only for themselves, like the guy is probably because I was do the devil's advocate, that guy's probably sitting on, you know, what I haven't invested in this girl yet on. So I'm going to just sit here because I, if I don't like her, I'm out of here, you know. So they're both sizing each other up. So unfortunately, it's not the right move to do. But I'm sure that he's probably sizing her up just as much as she's about to size them up. So whether it be nerves, whether it be I'm only investing this much time in this situation, so I'm getting my own stuff, she can get her own stuff. And let's just see what happens and what unfolds once we sit down. That's where the real game begins. So but if he goes above and beyond, which, once again is not the right thing to do, I'm not I'm not condoning what he's doing. I'm just trying to think of what his what he might be thinking. If he gets in line with their data data. What happens when she gets her coffee, they've already realized they don't like each other.
Jamie Villamor 22:39
It's just such a small price to pay definitely much more to gain. You know, who cares about the 510 bucks. Right?
Chris Louis 22:47
Right. But some people are petty, you know, like, so I'm looking at both sides. So I that's not my personal belief, I would have gone above and beyond 100%.
Holly Shannon 22:55
Yeah, so we know the right thing to do. So now anybody that was on a coffee day, they need to follow the instructions. Hey, coffee lovers, two quick announcements, I will be putting coffee culture on YouTube on my new channel there. So please go follow me at Holly Shannon. My second announcement is my book zero to podcast is available on Amazon. And in the show notes. It's the How To Guide to start your podcast fast so you can finally get your voice and ideas on iTunes. It makes a great holiday gift, graduation present. Or maybe it's your New Year's resolution. Either way, both links are in the show notes. And now back to our show coffee culture. Hey, coffee lovers, I have two quick announcements. I am opening a YouTube channel at Holly Shannon. And I'm going to have all of coffee culture on there. So you can capture the little shorts for five minutes here and there. Or you can capture the full length interviews. Also, my book zero to podcast is on Amazon and it's on my website. And it is the How To Guide to start your podcast really fast and get your voice and ideas on iTunes and Spotify like I did. Makes a great holiday gift for you perhaps a graduation present. Or maybe it's your New Year's resolution. Both links are in the show notes. And now back to our show coffee culture. Now I brought up the coffee date but you know you don't drink coffee and you've gone into coffee shops Chris just to be seen just to take in the vibe. I feel like coffee shops for us are sort of that modern day place to meet up and be with friends. So do you ever use that term? Like let's meet for coffee? Not because you want to have coffee but maybe because you want to help a friend out who you know could sort of use a lift or because you need a lift
Chris Louis 24:59
no totally Like, so like I buy the I do drink coffee I'm a latte guy like it's x, I need more milk and coffee. But I do use the coffee shop as a meeting place all the time. Like any any meeting that set that needs to be just kind of like for my manager or friend or whatever we always meet at coffee shops. I always first thing I do in between my tennis lessons is I hit right to the coffee shop, there's probably a coffee shop, my coffee being because I love coffee bean shout out coffee bean. Like they know me in there. And I'll sit in there for hours between lessons doing work. So I use I utilize a coffee shop just as as if it was my office. So So I totally believe in the use of a coffee shop and meeting friends, whether it be business, whether it be for pleasure, I think it's a great spot. Yeah, I
Holly Shannon 25:40
think it's a it's definitely a good life hack for doing work, you know, because you surround yourself with other people. I mean, Chris, you're an extrovert. So my so like, the energy of people in the room really works for you. But I'm not sure that goes the same for introverts, but I don't know.
Jamie Villamor 25:57
And I'm more of an I'm more of an introvert. So you want to find your way
Holly Shannon 26:02
you go out of your way to surround yourself with a bunch of people to do work.
Jamie Villamor 26:06
No way. I'm, I'm working from my home, my hotel, like within my own space. For sure. Yeah,
Chris Louis 26:14
that's actually interesting, Holly, that's a topic for you down the road as well. Because I would use that time to actually go to a coffee shop to be in a space where there's an environment because I feel like I get my best work done versus sitting at home or it's just I have I have too much busy work that I can do at home. So sometimes I do need to leave the house and actually go to a coffee shop just for the hell of it and doom and actually get work done.
Jamie Villamor 26:36
Yeah, and I can't concentrate too worried about what's going on around me.
Holly Shannon 26:42
Well, that's interesting. Like,
Jamie Villamor 26:43
I need a quiet space to focus. Yeah, yeah.
Holly Shannon 26:47
So it's more of a distraction for you to have people around Jamie and Chris under percent it it's more disruptive distraction for you, Chris to have like laundry behind you that needs to be folded. You know, during staff to be
Chris Louis 27:02
relevant. It's funny for us to actually go to the drive thru together in a coffee shop when we when she picks me up from the airport, Holly, we go to a coffee and all time drive thru and it's a who, by the way, like we'll get in, we've done like, I think we've done reels there. We've done like, today she's on her, she's driving, she's on her Instagram doing something or on your phone or doing something. And so the woman's talking through the window, and I'm answering all of her questions. And finally the woman had the look down to see me because I was like, here's the payment here's this do you want like a cup holder?
Jamie Villamor 27:32
Yes, please. Yes, I totally ignored her. She wasn't even there. And I didn't even like process it because you had asked a question and I had got to work on my right
Chris Louis 27:42
so I was doing the whole thing from the passenger seat overlooking her
Jamie Villamor 27:45
to the window person and tell you what color hair she had.
Holly Shannon 27:48
Oh my god. No so different. So different. You guys are gonna need different time me from from one of your drive throughs order all orders through the phone.
Jamie Villamor 28:01
It's a thing when I like talk shit as we're driving away. I'm like, does she not here? She asked that or
Chris Louis 28:10
it was like right off her sugar free if you don't have sugar free, you know, little things like that all the time. So one of my favorite things about coffee shops that I can say is like actually talking to the staff that's I've always felt like the staff is probably hands down one of the most friendliest out of all, what would you call it? Serving? So what we do in this in the service industry, I think that the baristas in the in the coffee shop, like staff 100% Probably hands down the best out of as far as like, engagement talking, you know, they're always polite. They're always smiling. I've never seen an angry barista, yeah, for
Holly Shannon 28:45
ever. No, I don't think I have either. Now, so if you were to talk, let's let's go into dating for just a second if we think about alcohol, and we'll bring the Bruins so we'll say like an Espresso Martini or something at a brunch, would you consider having a first date as a brunch since it's like earlier in the day, but if it in a coffee shop at a coffee shop, to be at a coffee shop. It could just be you know, brunch culture is really huge. I know it's really huge here in DC. I don't know who it is where you are. But you know now that we were talking about baristas, mixologist now, the huge thing here is the Espresso Martini. So I'm just bringing espresso into the picture because we're talking about coffee culture, but would you go out on a date that is a brunch? Is that an option? Like do you think that's a cool first date? Because it's not like close to evening and dinner or is brunch still too long?
Chris Louis 29:42
No, I would do it. You know, I'm a relationship Holly's but if I wasn't in a relationship, I would do it all you can go 6am 712 9pm I don't care if I'm meeting you and that's the only time you have I will meet you just because so I have no like like standards or as far I was like, what I will do and what I will not do just for someone. So if that's if it's a brunch that we have time for then it's a brunch that we do.
Holly Shannon 30:07
Jamie, are you in? brunch or no?
Jamie Villamor 30:10
Yes, I'm in for a brunch. Yeah. Okay.
Holly Shannon 30:12
All right. So coffee date would be ideal because it's shorter, and a coffee and a brunch might be second choice. Can you tell me a disaster first date you had and it does not have to be related to coffee or coffee houses or coffee culture. Just dating in general. Can you want to give me a horror story?
Chris Louis 30:34
I'm gonna Jamie and said I'm gonna slide my chair way over here. Oh,
Jamie Villamor 30:37
no, you go first. Because I know you have some great stories. He would have like three dates lined up in one night. Yeah, this is true. So So for me, but that's imagine being on the other side of that. How do you keep
Holly Shannon 30:51
this in order? So this
Chris Louis 30:53
is why for me why it's the if I was single, I would the coffee dates will be amazing for me because I would probably line up a bunch of people in a row like interview style. I'm not like speed dating or anything like that. But obviously if I'm taking time out to meet someone, and I want to make sure that if I'm out in this environment, I want to make sure that I have at least some backup you know, I don't want to be like a lost cause day and that and not to say that it's a good or a bad thing. I'm very polite. I'm very much a gentleman. The first one if it doesn't work out. Nice meeting you doubt it. Always the next one comes in, you know, so it's and it's always timed out just right, because I know just how much I need of someone if I like you or not. Yeah, so which is just like the coffee date. In theory though. Most people have had a coffee day for five minutes. Like I said, you walk in you sit with the person. It's not vibing why linger? Why sit there when it's not gonna work for you guys. So I believe I'm a firm believer in like, you know what, nice meeting you. I gotta move on. So I will go to the next bar. And then the next one. But that was me back in the day. But the worst day that I've probably ever had was this one girl was at the at the Hilton and La off of Missouri right in Beverly Hills. And I was meeting this girl for daytime drinks. She came in and started crying telling me sob stories for like 10 minutes in I'm like, do I look like I'm just your person just to lay this out on and I'm looking for exits right away. So I got up, said I had to go to the bathroom, went straight to the valet gave my ticket and walked right out. That was the worst thing ever hit you up after no I'm because why would she? Not? Because she probably thought What an asshole but I'm like, I'm not gonna have you sit in attendance and all sudden you're crying about something that I had nothing to do with so I was like this is no because that's a red flag to me. Once again remember the needy thing? She was being too needy too dramatic. So
Holly Shannon 32:32
that's bad. That's bad. Yeah. Therapy. You were there for a date. There's a big decimal
Chris Louis 32:37
anytime I've ever done that by the way and I'll never forget that one. I was just I was just I can't do this. This is not worth my time. So she's
Holly Shannon 32:43
she's coming on the show next week no.
Jamie Villamor 32:47
Founder will surely she's here right now. What was her name?
Holly Holly meet awkward.
Um, fortunately, I haven't had too many like mishaps because I'm like, thoroughly like interviewing before I even give my time. So we probably already spent like a lot of time on the phone together. We FaceTime so I can make sure you're not catfishing me. So that's like off off the bat, like all on a face time. So I can see like who is on the other side of that. And yeah, so if I'm showing up somewhere, then it's because I'm really interested. I just don't have like a lot of time to be like meeting up and seeing Oh, she
Chris Louis 33:38
vets them pretty well before she actually meets up with them. So but do you feel like they change their spots? Like when you meet up with them? Finally are they always do they seem to be who they are. I've been dating. But I mean, so like, but every but we're saying there's got to be one in there somewhere that just like you've met him like, Oh, like this guy just totally is not the person I was talking to on the phone or whatever.
Jamie Villamor 33:59
Yeah, I like I went to a dinner and then like the conversation just it was it was harder to have that conversation. And then by the end of the dinner, I knew his his ex wife's favorite sexual position. Yeah, that's nice. I'm like, yeah, so I'm like, Oh, why are we talking about her? So yeah, he talks about his ex wife a lot.
Holly Shannon 34:22
Wow. Yeah,
Chris Louis 34:24
I didn't tell you this. Yeah, I think that maybe for coffee shots might be better in the future of fire, which I will never be saying Lam but if I was because if you go out and have drinks alone, the person downing those drinks real fast, who's either nervous or just a big drinker is always a bad sign, by the way, too. So this is why the coffee shop is another good reason because you're getting that authenticity out of a person. Yeah. versus just the what does it call
Jamie Villamor 34:47
I mean, that was a second date. Okay, it was the second day and then the last date. Yeah. So well alcohol
Holly Shannon 34:54
does change it and yeah, that's so weird that he was talking about like his ex wive's said sex positions like that's those are red flags and themselves.
Very awkward. Like any talk of the ex wife, generally, it's just going to be awkward. But that probably
Jamie Villamor 35:10
a little I do ask like, so if someone has like children, or they've been married before, I always want to know what the relationship is like with with the mother or, yeah, if they're still friends with their exes, like, I want to know. So that's usually conversation like, I'll get into, like, pretty early on, because I think it's important, especially when if they have children, like I want to know what the relationship is.
Holly Shannon 35:34
But but not this favorite, favorite sexual position of know. That he's, he's participating in, he's showing up to the tournaments and like, yeah, parent night school, kind of
Jamie Villamor 35:47
exactly. I'll ask about how she was in bed. Like maybe
Chris Louis 35:51
he's like, going by the waves. And by the way, this is a great position to work with. What about you, Holly, what's your disaster dating situation?
Holly Shannon 36:01
Wow. That's really good question. I wasn't prepared for that. I, you know, it's, it's funny. I didn't date a lot of people. So I used to joke around that I was the queen of long term, you know, that I would meet somebody and if I like, I usually I was friends with a lot of guys. Like I had more guy friends than I did girlfriends growing up. I was just more comfortable hanging out with guys. And um, so I would generally get to know somebody before I started going out with them anyway, so there was never like that first date, if you will, like I had already. Yeah, I like already was friends with him. I kind of knew what they were about before we started like took it to that next level. And then like, Next Level for me was like, full time like exclusives like 10 years. Yeah, no, like, seriously, like, all of the guys I dated. Were like, a really long time, like three plus years or something. Like I would go from zero to 60 I guess. So I didn't really date a lot. So yeah, I think I probably am the worst person to talk about dating intelligence. Which is why I needed you guys here because you guys know everything about dating and I'm was the queen of long term.
Jamie Villamor 37:31
The girl that has all the guy friends red flag again, but the girl that has
more guy for not a lot. Yes. Not a lot of girlfriends. A ton of like guy friends. Oh, he's just my guy friend red flags that
Chris Louis 37:47
a red flag. I don't I mean, I'm just be honest. No, I'm wondering because I have a lot of girlfriends. So it's the opposite for me. So would that be? Would that we've talked
Jamie Villamor 37:55
about this on the show that it's sometimes it's impossible for a guy to have just a friend they're always waiting for their end.
Chris Louis 38:03
Yeah, okay, well, for the for the average bear, Yogi, but other than that, I mean, myself. It's like I have a ton of girlfriends and probably knows but, but once again, it's like that's, that's what it is. I'm not looking for an end. But I'm different though. My all my girls are here. We're always potentials that I sit there go, oh, this could be a potential girl that I want to date. So they become friends. And then I just get over and I'm like, they'd stay in the friendzone. So I go that route for myself. So it's similar, but I'm not looking. I'm not looking for an end. Yeah. So if it doesn't happen at the beginning is I'm not interested.
Holly Shannon 38:33
Yeah, like there were mostly like friendzone and then there was just somewhere along the way. It shifted. Like I can't I couldn't even put my finger on any one thing so for all
Chris Louis 38:45
the guys listening circling around we
Jamie Villamor 38:49
talk about this a lot we do. I always say like the friend zone is the best zone to be in.
Chris Louis 38:56
And I disagree with that all the time. I disagree with it all the time. Because it's like I don't have time to be in a friend zone with a girl I'm sorry. Yeah, but you have all these female friends yeah, but once again they'll remember my the differences is that I'm not waiting to find my end. It's like for myself if I'm What if I'm going to pursue a girl I'm gonna go full pursue Right? Like I'm not going to be a friend with you. And then like a yearly oh my god, you're the perfect girl. For me. It's like, no, you've already been that point past when I first met you.
Yeah. So it's different. You're a little out of the nine.
Holly Shannon 39:23
Like you're a little bit different, you know, like, so when I met Chris or a, like I said, we met at a conference. And it was actually I was walking with my my new friend there. Alicia Landry. And Chris came over and we started talking the three of us. And interestingly, you know, there are people who have friends you know, they have relationships, people who are in their friend zone and then they become great relationships like we're seeing our friend right now. You know, having a great time she you know, they got out the friendzone. So that's kind of what happened with me with most of the guys that I ended up dating. So I think, I hope she's not gonna be mad that I just sort of like brought that up.
Chris Louis 40:10
I guess. There were no names names. Yeah. I
Holly Shannon 40:14
don't know who that friend is. Yeah. All right. All right, well, she probably won't care. Because she's like having the time of her life. So like, she probably doesn't care. So. But I think a lot of people are like that, Chris, I think you're like the exception to the rule that like, yeah,
Chris Louis 40:29
and I know I am. Because like, even like, I have a few friends like we all do. One of the things that I say about guys, regardless, is the fact that and I could name probably 10 on my hand right now where they are waiting for this one girl just to finally see them, you know, see for who they are like they do they go, they jump hoops and barrels and go through fire and all this stuff for these people. And I'm like, she is never gonna date you. I'm sorry. Why are you doing your time? Right? But they can't see that. Because they feel like in their brain they have there's hope. Because of like what you just said a year from now, that might change and it possibly could change, you know, but I'm not going through those hoops for that. At the same time. So well, you
Jamie Villamor 41:05
know, I tell people all the time, like, hang in there.
Chris Louis 41:09
So bad. See stringing them along I call.
Holly Shannon 41:14
I'm like, Jamie, no, I like
Chris Louis 41:16
when you don't know, though, Holly. That's the thing, though. When you don't know. That's the difference? You don't know. But there's always that, like you said, there's a hidden agenda that you might not know now, there's smart girls out there that actually know what the hell is going on. And they will run that guy through the wringer and let him just do whatever they want for her. No, obviously, knowing that he likes her data, data, that's a different situation. So
Holly Shannon 41:38
Well, look, I'm gonna say I am the I was the queen of long term. But I also dated a lot of households along the way, you know, like, I'm not saying I was good at it, okay. But I think that, over time, when you're friends with people, it becomes there's more context, there's more layers, you get you learn more about, you know, not just like surface stuff, like likes and dislikes, you learn about their family, you watch how they interact with friends, you watch how they interact with their parents, you, you just you watch how they behave when they go up to a register and order something how they treat a waiter. Like there's just as more context over time. So sometimes, the longer is, can be really advantageous because you have a really clear idea of like that person's value system.
Chris Louis 42:31
True, but I'm gonna throw in two monkey wrenches. Can I do that?
Holly Shannon 42:33
Yeah, monkey wrench. You're good at that, like, so
Chris Louis 42:35
I'm gonna throw this out here. Okay. All that to all that, right? All that time invested with just seeing all that. And finally you go, wow, this is a guy that I might want to date. What if he kisses bad? And I'm going to go in deeper? What if the sex is horrible? What do you do, then? Now you've ruined that friendship that you just had. So all this time with that friendship, you've had a great friendship. And now you went past the above and beyond. The sex is horrible, or he's a bad kisser. And we've all heard this law, you've even we've talked about this. So what do you do that?
Holly Shannon 43:01
That's a tough one. You know, I actually did run into that a little bit when I was younger, but I was too young and too naive. And to new to all of those things that I didn't know how to figure that out together. Like I didn't know how to say, Hey, can Can I tell you what I like more? Or how can we work on on this part of it to see if I could make it better. I was really young, like I was naive. Like, I think now we have more of a conversation about what we like in the bedroom. And what isn't working for us. I think maybe we're more forthright now. In this day and age, if you will, like I think it was a little different. When I was younger, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm just making that up. What like, what do you guys think?
Jamie Villamor 44:00
Um, I mean, I'm big on communication. So if the sex isn't where I want it, then I'm laying it on the table and telling what I want. So I have no problem communicating what I need and want.
Chris Louis 44:12
What do you feel like you but do you feel like you lost a friend in that situation, though? It was like So what I'm really getting at you like I just dove right in sex.
Holly Shannon 44:25
But were you always that way? Jamie, were you always that way?
Jamie Villamor 44:27
Like when you were younger? Absolutely. Because that's Yeah, I think those are older we get we become more accustom and understanding like our needs and our wants, and then just the communication. So we have to learn how to communicate over time with what works and what doesn't work. Yeah, I agree. So it's definitely an evolution.
Holly Shannon 44:49
So it didn't necessarily kill the relationship when you were younger. If the kissing wasn't great, or the sex wasn't great if the
Jamie Villamor 44:56
kissing wasn't great, I am out Just like I remember like in high school and like, oh my gosh, she's so high on a sky. And then you kiss him and you're like, What the hell happened? Right? This is a no go.
Chris Louis 45:11
Yeah, we have to remember that. That's the first interaction that we have with someone who's always kissing and at a very young age, like you said, you pick that up pretty quickly where you go, Oh, this is bad. You know, it's like, even though you still might be an experienced yourself. You know, bad is bad when it's bad.
Jamie Villamor 45:27
Yeah, I wouldn't. It's a match. It's a match. Right?
Holly Shannon 45:30
Chris, when was your first kiss? Oh, geez.
Chris Louis 45:33
Man. Oh, my God. Probably what I was. That's a good question. I probably 12
Jamie Villamor 45:44
Maybe, or no tongue.
Chris Louis 45:48
I think it was it had to be tongue back then. And you know, it's different when you're playing a game with your friends saying, hey, let's like play seven minutes, or whatever it is. Yeah, like that. Because that was always around. But my first real kiss someone I like was probably about 12. And I remember we were on a bus heading to some like Christian something or other on a bus to some retreat that she had asked me to go to and she was really hot. And I remember going I'll go with you. And we kissed on the bus and she was a good kisser. And we started dating for I mean, as much as I can say, dating at that age, like hanging out. But she was she had issues and drama once again. My psycho drama girls. Yeah. Mr. Young Holly.
Holly Shannon 46:24
Started dating intelligence at age 12. Yes,
Chris Louis 46:27
I did. I took note of that. But she was a good kisser though. She was a fast girl.
Jamie Villamor 46:33
Wow, that's crazy. My first kiss was kindergarten. I kissed a boy at the water fountain. Oh yeah, my like my first kiss. Kiss was like sixth grade and we were playing spin the bottle. It was so disgusting. Right? That sounds like Ill that was that was. That was like that was with Tom. Yeah, it was on Halloween.
Chris Louis 46:59
We live for those moments. You practice those moments. You know you're in the mirror. You look at it. You're like whatever it is. Yes. Your pillow. Oh my god. It's so funny. So funny. What about you Hollywood was yours by there? Do you remember?
Holly Shannon 47:13
Um, yeah, actually, like when I asked it, I was kind of like, huh, when was my mind was kind of similar to Jamie's in that, um, my first kiss was like in second grade, but it was just like one of those like little packs, so it didn't count. And I saw I would say the real kiss was probably I'm gonna say I was like, around fifth grade or something like that. And it was awful. And I can't even blame him. Because I didn't even know what the hell I was doing. And like, I think he like spread rumors after that. I think I was the terrible
Chris Louis 47:46
Oh my God. He was saving face.
Holly Shannon 47:50
Like, I think he was like, totally threw me under the bus on that. And I was like, too stupid to like, throw him under the bus. I was just kind of like, oh my God really kissed a boy you know? Was like having this moment and then it was like, you know, it
Chris Louis 48:05
you realize in those moments? You realize that those moments though why kissing is so important, though. So that's why I was saying like, I lead with kissing because it's obviously it is it is important. You know, I love someone. I really like making out to more than a lot of things.
Jamie Villamor 48:20
Yeah, they gotta be a good kisser.
Chris Louis 48:22
Which usually sets the tone I feel good kisser. I feel like everything else is probably pretty much up to par. Yeah, if
Jamie Villamor 48:27
you if you can kiss good, then there's a potential.
Holly Shannon 48:34
I love that. I'm gonna end on that note, Jamie. Really great. You guys are amazing. You have you really do have such an intuitive nature about how you run your show. I listened to it. I was listening. Today you were talking with somebody about plant medicine. And you know, a little bit of dating questions at the end. I really enjoy listening to both of you. And Chris, I'm really glad that we've met and Jamie, I finally get to meet you as well, because I've been in my ears for a while now.
Jamie Villamor 49:07
So thank you so much for having us.
Holly Shannon 49:11
Thanks for coming on Coffee Culture.
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This season is produced by pale blue studios