Turning Pain into Pages: Stash with Laura Cathcart Robbins
Episode Notes
Laura Cathcart Robbins turned a viral essay into a podcast called The Only One In the Room. And she turned her pain into pages with a memoir called Stash, My Life in Hiding that's out now!
When she was 44 Laura Cathcart Robbins got sober. That was almost 15 years ago. In the recovery community, it's all about meeting for coffee, it's coffee after the meeting, it's coffee before the meeting. It's coffee. That's how you connect, because we don't meet for drinks anymore, right? Every coffee house became like a haven for her during that time, especially those first couple years.
Along with these topics we talk about her new Bestseller where she turned her pain into pages:
Stash, My Life in Hiding (links to buy in the show notes)
1. First urban PR agent, or as she said is code for Black.
2. Viral post that became a podcast
3. Her podcast, The Only One in the Room
4. Finding love against her will during drug treatment
5. Creating a platform to be known using blogs, podcasts and speaking before writing a memoir
6. 1440 Multi-University with Elizabeth Gilbert and Cheryl Strayed
7. A writer's retreat where she was the only black woman gave birth to her podcast, The Only One in the Room
8. How school felt like the set of the Brady Bunch
9. Drug and alcohol abuse, having children and postpartum depression (dirty little secret)
10. The rise and fall with Ambien, the drug to help you sleep
11. Parent's Association, attending premieres, playing tennis, ladies that lunch all while chipping off pieces of Ambien to stay present and level
12. All the natural receptors to sleep and survive were bludgeoned with Ambien and alcohol
13. Doctors were lenient because she was good at building a facade, she's dismantling the buildings every day
14. Our identity labels, part of a couple (wife), and how buying milk was the moment she lost her sense of 'self' and had an existential crisis or maybe just a realization. Treated differently even as the ex-husband wife, receiving perks from the marriage, being the Mom of the kids from that marriage. Ego feeding identities. Being on a pedestal in her community. Then to rehab, challenged for the perfect motherhood, divorce, no job, no identity.
15. Invitations to baby showers, wedding showers and spa days: saying yes when you don't want to. The power of saying no.
16. The power of saying Yes and No
17. Scott, her husband, who she met in rehab. Dated for 6 years after sobriety. Their relationship while writing the book, having a podcast, all the social media and marketing. Raising kids and and because they weren't busy enough that embarked on a vegan diet too!
Stash, My Life in Hiding (Paperback)
Stash, My Life in Hiding (Audiobook)
Laura Cathcart Robbins Instagram
Holly Shannon's new Youtube Channel, Subscribe here!
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Transcript
Holly Shannon 0:00
Coffee Culture is brewed for connection under the guise of coffee. We've been meeting in cafes for centuries. Today is no different. Coffee Culture, the podcast explores the meetup. If you are a coffee enthusiast, maybe seeking Modern Love on a coffee date, we'll want some health hacks. We'll dig into that too. I'm Holly Shannon. Come wrap your hands around a hot cup of connection with me on coffee culture.
Laura Cathcart Robbins 2:25
the perfect place speaker in a way but yeah, I'm so glad that he connected us and and thank you for that. That intro that was a really unique intro. Actually, I I liked the way you kind of cobbled it together. And
Holly Shannon 0:30
So hello, coffee culture family. I'm here today with Laura Cathcart Robins. And I found her through a friend. I'm all about connection. As you know, the podcast is all about our connection through the coffee meetup. But sometimes it's not the coffee meetup. And we have a mutual friend, who also has been on this show, Christopher Lewis. And so we're going to talk a little bit about connection through friends and maybe through the fact that we both were at a podcasting conference but didn't meet each other there. So we'll probably dive into that a little bit. But what I'd like to say what I learned a little bit from combing through articles that Laura wrote and listening some reels on Instagram, I encourage you to go follow her. And I actually scraped a little bit of her language from here, so I'm not taking credit for this. But she turned a viral essay into a podcast called The Only One In the Room. And she turned her pain into pages with a memoir called stache that's coming out shortly. So we are going to dive in and I just want to present and say hello to Laura, how are you?
Laura Cathcart Robbins 1:46
Thank you so much for having me on the show. Holly. I I am good. Actually today. My memoir is out today. It is out in the world today. It's pub day. Yeah.
Holly Shannon 1:56
How did I clear that? I got COVID. And I had to push her out a week would land on the day. That book came on the
Laura Cathcart Robbins 2:04
shelves. Today it is. Yeah. Oh, I'm
Holly Shannon 2:07
so excited. That's a cool connection.
Laura Cathcart Robbins 2:09
No, it really is. And yes, I Christopher is just he is one of those great connectors like he's always looking to see you know, he could be a matchmaker. Right? Well, he isn't dating so
yes, my viral article turned into this podcast called The Only One In the Room. And stash my life in hiding my debut memoir, atria, Simon and Schuster is out right now. And it's it's an addiction memoir. It's a memoir about ending a marriage. It's a memoir about me, as a mom fighting to be in my kids lives. It's a memoir about falling in love. So it has like all the those themes. And it also comes from the place of privilege, that intersection of privilege and race and addiction, which is unique. So I'm excited that is out in the world and excited to share my story with people and excited to talk about coffee.
Holly Shannon 3:25
All right, so let's start with something easy before we dive into the deep stuff. So you're a coffee drinker.
Laura Cathcart Robbins 3:31
So let me tell you a little bit my journey with coffee about love that rather never drink coffee until I was in my 20s I had a in the 90s I had the only black owned PR entertainment PR firm in Los Angeles. And so it was quite happening. I was like on retainer with all the major studios and labels and I did all their urban acts I'm putting air quotes around that for people who are just listening. That means black. So if they had a black show or a black artist, I would be handed part of their publicity or all of it to to handle and it was quite the time. But what I what happened when I started running my own company was my hours were from like, you know, six in the morning because I'm in LA, and a lot of my clients were back East. So I'd be in the office at six or 630. And then there'd be parties and events. So I was tired.
Holly Shannon 4:31
Tiny bit.
Laura Cathcart Robbins 4:33
Yeah, so coffee was that 6am or 5:30am Necessity then. And the way that I drank it because I didn't like the taste was with about two to three inches of sugar in the bottom of the cup. Yes,
Holly Shannon 4:48
I know some coffee with my sugar. Yes,
Laura Cathcart Robbins 4:51
I want it coffee ice cream. So that's basically what I made was coffee ice cream and I only drink a couple cups every day and I did that for you yours with all that sugar into my 40s. And then when so when I was I was 44 when I got sober. That was almost 15 years ago. And, and so coffee became absolutely the way to connect with people, then. Because in the recovery community, it's all about meeting for coffee, it's coffee after the meeting, it's coffee before the meeting. It's coffee. That's how you connect, because we don't meet for drinks anymore, right? Alcoholic beverages. So we meet for coffee. So every coffee house became like a haven for me during that time, especially those first couple years. Yeah, yeah, it was an it's an it's still. It's like, if, if there's someone that's new to the program, and I want to sit down with them, I'm not taking them to dinner. I'm not taking them to lunch, I'm going to take them to coffee.
Holly Shannon 6:02
I love this. You know, this was the premise behind my show is that the coffee Meetup is merely an excuse to be together to gather and to hold each other up. And that's exactly what you were doing. But nobody really got it when I explained to them. Coffee Culture, it's, it's about the meetup. It's also about the brew, if you like it. But But essentially, it's about connection, right? We're all looking for it some way. And coffee is just a tool. It is
Laura Cathcart Robbins 6:32
absolutely about connection. And there's something there's something about socializing without a beverage that makes other people uncomfortable. Like with this the first thing, right? When you ask somebody that when they come into your home, can I offer you a drink. And so if you don't take water, and you don't take an alcoholic beverage, then people are like, well, I want to give you something, I want something in your hand, when you're walking around a party people wants some kind of beverage in your hand. So coffee is a really good way to kind of comfort other people about your silly,
Holly Shannon 7:08
right, and that need to have something in your hand or to offer. So it's it's our connection to hospitality. It shows that we're inviting somebody in to spend some time with us, at least the amount of time it takes to have your glass of water, your coffee. It's all part of it, right?
Laura Cathcart Robbins 7:28
It's part of polite society, I think, to imbibe something like to partake that way. And so the other part of my coffee journey is when I was 47 got this really weird heart pounding for about seven days from the time that I woke up until about six o'clock at night. And it scared me i i have not. I as far as I know, I didn't have any experience with anxiety. But this is what I read about. But this didn't feel like my mind. It just felt like my heart. So I went to the doctor, one of my doctors and he's like, why don't you stop coffee and see what happens. So I did, and it went away the next day. Never had it again. Wow. No idea whether or not it was actually tied to that. It could have been like a temporary thing. So since I've been 47 I'm 58. Now I haven't had caffeine. But I still have a morning cup of coffee. It's just decaf. Because I love the ritual. I was getting up I like so I have it with oat milk. I have oatmeal. I make an oat milk, decaf latte, at home. And that's when I order when I go out. That's my coffee order. Or someone's great. It's so yummy. And you don't need sugar in it. So the days of the
Holly Shannon 8:58
coffee ice cream Gone. Gone. Oh, and just makes Blue Bottle. Sorry. I didn't mean to interrupt. You know bottle though. makes a really lovely cappuccino or latte with oat milk. So just
Laura Cathcart Robbins 9:11
oh, 90 going around. Okay. Okay. I'm sure you know a lot about every coffee drink.
Holly Shannon 9:18
Uh, probably too much. I love it. And I am I'm a coffee snob. Like I like make no apologies. Like I like good coffee. I really do. But you know, and I love the ritual. That's my morning thing too. I have a French press. And it's very, you know, there's a certain amount of scoops that go in with the hot water and you stir it up and you wait four minutes and that four minutes I'm stretching and it's just part of my morning routine. And yeah, yeah.
Laura Cathcart Robbins 9:52
It's it's mine, too. It's part of I do the meditation. I work out five days a week I'm in my workout clothes because I worked out I think you and I talked about that was like, is it on video? Because I was trying to figure out like when I was going to work out,
Holly Shannon 10:06
sorry, my workout shirt underneath because I'm going to like a Pilates class for my first time later. So I'm like, just go to wear my clothes.
Laura Cathcart Robbins 10:16
I haven't got the bodies but Me neither. There's my first time. What was your first time ever? Oh,
Holly Shannon 10:23
yeah, I've done mat Pilates, which I hate because I have neck issues, and I just ended up hurting my neck. But this is what the reformer which I've never done, heard great things about it. And so I guess I'm a pilates reformer, Virgin today I break the exam, right? Yeah, yeah, I'll let you know how it goes. So you can decide if you want to do it. But I'd love to dive a little deeper. If you're okay with that. I know my coffee culture. family does love coffee conversation. But I definitely want to you have such a an incredible history. And today, your book is out, which is just crazy. I'm so happy that we're here together for that. If I had known I would have like had balloons or something here, but Yes, exactly, exactly. So what I'd like to do is, you know, there was a part that I caught in one of your Instagram reels, which go immediately deep, so people go watch them. But I would like you to talk about your book. But there was something that stood out for me and one of the real so I'm going to go back to it. I'm not going to say yet. I want to see if it actually just comes up. But would you like to share a little bit about you know, it's natural for your writing to become a podcast, I think you see like the value of your content, and you want it in people's ears as well. But to turn it into a memoir, that's a bigger fish to fry like that. That's a lot of work making a book. So what made you decide to do all of that?
Laura Cathcart Robbins 12:17
Yeah, I mean, it was kind of the other way around. So when I've, I've been a writer, as far as I can remember, I had like a little line a day diary when I was like six and seven that I wrote in. I thought I wrote in it every day. I recently, like unearthed it from a trunk. And it was pretty sporadic, actually. But in my mind, I was writing everyday. But I you know, I did that for four years. And I wrote stories and always was writing, always writing. And then once I got sober I lost the ability to read or write. And that sounds really like hyperbolic but it's not that I literally, I typed emails I wrote thank you notes. But I couldn't read or write for pleasure anymore. There was no it was like something had snapped shut in me or gone dormant. And the first like five years of sobriety, I was kind of like, okay, maybe this is this will come back there were you know, there were other priorities for my system to come back online first. And, and so there's a repair going on. So this will probably come back at some point and, and it really didn't feel like it was going to so I started taking writing classes. And it was really hard for me because I was frustrated with the fact that everybody else seemed to be just like flowing in class and writing and I could barely get anything down on the page. And what I got down honestly wasn't very good. And it was short. And it wasn't honest. And it wasn't real, like I could tell all these things, but I couldn't do any better. And but I kept going and I kept going and I took a book proposal class and 2016 I didn't know what I wanted to write about but I wanted to see like how you put together a book proposal and in this really like long I covered years and years and years of my life in this proposal in the middle of that was this really meaty, tender vulnerable story of me and the bottom at the bottom like rock bottom in my addiction being in the middle of a divorce at that time going to treatment for that and then meeting someone and and and not like hooking up with them but against my will falling in love with them. And like this can't be anything because this is ridiculous. Like you know we met in drug treatment in another state. This can't be so like me kind of battling my itself and outside circumstances. And so that was in the middle of this very long proposal I did. That proposal was rejected by everyone I sent it to. But one of the rejections this very generous agent named Anjali saying she didn't send me a form letter back. She said, You're a beautiful writer. But memoir is the hardest thing to sell, and no one knows who you are. So these are the things I suggest you get some articles published, maybe start a podcast, do storytelling, look at the moth. Build an author's platform, you cannot sell a book not a memoir, unless you have a platform. Hmm, interesting. Yeah, really interesting, right. And she's the first thing she said was start a blog. That was the first thing she said, Because basically, she looked me up and couldn't find me. I didn't have anything to show online and so on. She said, speaking engagements, too. So I I was stunned that she took the time to write that to me. I tried to write her again. And it like it bounced back, like submissions are closed until whatever. So I never got back in touch with her. But I started that blog that year. And I did it every week. For two years, it was quite painful, because I still couldn't write very well. I was just like, let me just get something out there. Let me get into this exercise. And the writers retreat I went to in 2018. That was Elizabeth Gilbert and Cheryl Strayed.
Holly Shannon 16:34
God, I love them. Me too. I always like Apollo or something. Because they did it. They're often or at least Elizabeth Gilbert did.
Laura Cathcart Robbins 16:43
This. Was it? 1440 Multiversity. In the Santa Cruz Mountains.
Holly Shannon 16:47
Oh, yeah, I've heard of that. One, two. Yeah, similar. And it was three days.
Laura Cathcart Robbins 16:51
And so in, you know, they said, Bring blank notebooks, like at least for like four
Holly Shannon 16:58
bucks. I can't even write a card. Okay.
Laura Cathcart Robbins 17:03
So but I did, I brought the notebooks. And I was in a writers group at that time with women. I had never met in person. And we all went, we all went to this thing, which was really cool. So I had this amazing experience. There was 600 people there. But I was the only black one. Out of all, even the people that work there, Holly, like, there was
Holly Shannon 17:28
there weren't see that coming. Yeah. So
Laura Cathcart Robbins 17:31
I had this dual experience, right. I was with these two writers that whose books I keep on my desk that I admire so much. I was learning so much. I filled up those notebooks with all the writing assignments they gave us that I had no affinity. And it was the first time for me ever, that I've been in a space with that many people and been the only one.
Holly Shannon 17:54
Interesting. Did you did you find solace though in the group of women that you traveled to this event with? Because you said they were your original group? Right?
Laura Cathcart Robbins 18:02
Yeah. I mean, absolutely. Like I had a great time. It was wonderful sitting with them, but they're all white. So it's, it's because it wasn't just like a business conference, right? Where we were, like learning an operating system. We were we were being asked to be vulnerable with each other. And like, for instance, I had these two experiences, one where we were sectioned off into groups. So I wasn't with my writers group. And we had a break. And I kind of walked over to this group of I knew there were moms because I'd heard them talking before and I kind of joined them. And one of them was bragging about how her son had been pulled over by the police and argued his way out of a ticket and how proud she was of him. And I I couldn't back away from that group fast enough. I wanted. I didn't want them to see my tears. Yeah, yeah. And one of them kind of got it and they changed the subject, but there was no one for me to then go. Can you believe what just happened?
Holly Shannon 19:04
Yeah. Because you're thinking my sons would not have had that experience? Oh, no,
Laura Cathcart Robbins 19:08
no, I mean, I, I would, it might be the end of them. If they ever
Holly Shannon 19:13
did. I never response. That's crazy. Wow. And then
Laura Cathcart Robbins 19:17
we had another assignment where we were paired with it with, you know, 300 of us or 300. And something of us were everyone was paired off. And we sat on the floor and face each other and we're supposed to read our assignments to each other. And I picked up my notebook to read and I said, Dear, we did write it a letter to somebody and I wrote it to black church families. I don't even remember what the assignment was. But we had to write to a category of people. And as soon as I said the words my partner put down her notebook and start bawling. And she went on for the we have five minutes, and she filled the entire five minutes by saying I feel so sorry for African American And I voted for so and so I cried when that black guy got killed. And she didn't read me her assignment. She didn't let me read mine. And she just kind of pity spewed all over me. She said she felt so sorry for me for being black, and felt guilty for the white people of this country. It was so inappropriate. It was so dumb. And again, I had no affinity. There was no one, this was the same conference, there was no one I could turn to. And say, can you believe what just happened to me? So I wrote about it. When I got home, I submitted it to the Huffington Post. That's the article that went viral. So okay. And from that, the idea because a lot of the comments I got back, were hashtag the only one in the room, because that's what I was. I was the only one in the room. So it was apparently a very popular hashtag. I didn't know that. So when I sat down with Scott, we were thinking about the next step. You know, in my authors platform, which was the podcast, we're like, why don't we call it this? Why don't we call it the only one in the room and tell those stories, not just, you know, the story of the black woman in a room full of 600 white people, but you know, anybody who's ever felt alone in a room full of people and tell those stories?
Holly Shannon 21:22
Well, and it started for you at a very young age, when you started school. I did read a little article about that. Do you want to share that I'm not going to give my version I'd rather come from you?
Laura Cathcart Robbins 21:36
Well, I mean, it's been my whole life, I've been the only black person in most of the spaces. I was the only black kid in my school for a while. And then. And then after that, they were like three grades younger than me. So I didn't have a black classmate or a black peer, for longer than that. However, it was fine. Like I really had a I had a lovely childhood, in Cambridge, Massachusetts, at the Cambridge Montessori school. I had really good friends. I was super social. I didn't miss the absence. I didn't miss. I mean, I didn't. The absence of someone that looked like me wasn't as impactful as it was later on. But I also got used to being the only black person. And I think the article you're talking about is the article I wrote about my principal job. Yeah. And she, she, so yeah, my mom had switched schools, she had switched schools, because there was no one black there. I think I had gone to like four schools in Cambridge. And when there was a promise that there would be more black students. And when that promise wasn't fulfilled, my mom pulled me out. And finally she found the Cambridge Montessori school. And I was looking around when I first got there. And it was like, the Brady Bunch set, it was like all these. And for those of you who aren't familiar, the Brady Bunch was a really iconic show in the, the 70s, where there were, it was a family with two, three boys and three girls, and the girls all had long blonde hair. And the boys were, you know, just they were all white kids. And but the hair was this really big thing because they all had this really, like curtains have blonde hair. And that's what it looked like it looked like I was on the set of The Brady Bunch. And I'm looking around at my mom thinking this isn't any better than where I was before. Because I'm, I'm also the only one here. And then this woman comes in to the room to greet all these new students and parents. And she's in a dashiki, which is traditional African, you know, garb. She has an afro, at a time when most black people were straightening their hair. And she was brown skinned. And she wasn't wearing any makeup, which was, you know, kind of it was kind of hippy time. So there were a lot of people that weren't wearing makeup. And she had commanded that room and like everybody paid attention as soon as she walked in. She was respected. You could feel it. She was admired. You could feel that. And at that moment, in a way that I never been before. I was so proud to be black, because the most respected admired person in the room was black. That's beautiful. Yeah. And it it never I wasn't not proud of it before. But I hadn't ever been filled with that sense of pride until that moment.
Holly Shannon 24:38
Well and to see somebody in leadership, right. It wasn't just another mom walking in the room. Right? Yeah, commanded the space. So
Laura Cathcart Robbins 24:46
it Yes, she did. I love that. Yeah.
Holly Shannon 24:50
So in your book, you also talk about your addiction. Since, yes, and your sobriety what I found interesting I saw in one of your reels, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, that you actually didn't start anything until your children were born. Did I hear that correctly in one of the reels and and I only asked that question because I also want to ask, did you have postpartum depression? Was that what brought that on?
Laura Cathcart Robbins 25:31
Both those are very good questions. I. So my history with with drug and alcohol use is really interesting. When I was 19, I spent a year like doing cocaine with a pimp slash drug dealer guy, not 365 days, but I would drop in his place on the weekends. And it wasn't like a dark drug den. It was quite glamorous and fun. Like he was he would have these big parties. I was like one of his favorites. And we would just get high on the weekends. And then I go back to my regular life. But I did that for a year. And then one day, I was there a day longer than I was supposed to be. I was I was like doing coke with him. And it spilled over into a Monday. And I was supposed to pick up my mom at the airport, and I had somebody else pick her up because I wasn't done. And she and my dad got together with me her in person, my dad by phone from Florida. And they're like, we're worried about you. You're getting really thin, we want you to go to a 12 step program. And I was like, Oh, hell no, I don't have a problem. Because to me, I didn't because I
Holly Shannon 26:42
was just weekends, right? You thought? Yeah, that's an addiction, if it's just the right ends, right, exactly.
Laura Cathcart Robbins 26:47
So I stopped, I never went back there again, like lost his phone number, to show them that I was fine. And then through my 20s, you know, so I was 19 then So throughout my 20s, I drank socially didn't really like it. But I drink socially, I had fun, you know, I partied with people. But it wasn't that big of a deal. drugs weren't really part of the story, then it was more just like, let's go out and party and I kind of gave you a clip of my life. As a publicist, it was kind of required. When I would go out we would have drinks and I was 32 when my first son was born, so I got married and had him and then I was 34 When my second son was born. And to answer your question, I thought maybe I did have postpartum depression. I'm sure that it was undiagnosed. But I asked my doctor and he kind of waved me off and said, I'll just have a glass of wine at night, you'll be fine.
Holly Shannon 27:49
It's the dirty little secret by the way. And doctors do not. They do not talk to mothers about the possibility of something real happening in the body called postpartum depression. They're like, Oh, blues, oh, you're just not getting enough sleep have a glass of wine. So you know, you sleep a little? Yeah, shame.
Laura Cathcart Robbins 28:14
We dismissed I think, last now, but this was in 1998 and 1999. Yes. His thinking was that having the babies back to back the way that I did was probably I just needed time to recover. He's a really nice guy. I think he just really missed it. And, and there's this thing about me where I present really well regardless. So I'm put together I walk in, you rarely see me dragging almost never, like I don't exhibit any symptoms of anything ever. That's intentional. Not so much in sobriety, you know, I become more real with who I am. But up until then, you got a front, you know, you got the facade like a film studio, where it's just the front of the building. There's nothing behind it. Yes. So you know, not that he shouldn't have further investigated, but I'm sure to him I didn't look like I did. So, but another doctor, my general practitioner about a year later, maybe two years later, I said Look, you're not sleeping. Let's get you Ambien.
Holly Shannon 29:30
Yes. And I had
Laura Cathcart Robbins 29:32
not heard of it at that point. It was I don't think it was new, but it was not known to me. So I I kind of set myself up so I could try it that night. My my kids were little they were like three and four. And so I have my mom in town. My my ex husband who was then my husband was away for work a lot. So there were a lot of nights where it was just us and this was one of those weeks where it was just me and the kids. And so my mom came to run interference in case they woke up so that I could get a good night's sleep. And I, you know, I took that for his Ambien and I fell in. Like, I loved it. I loved the feeling I had before I fell asleep. I love the sleep that I had. I love the dreams, I woke up feeling refreshed and energetic. I wanted to hang out with my kids, like, it was, everything was better after that, after that, good night's sleep. And you know, I write in my book that the first my first, the first two words that popped into my mind after the first one were again, please. Like, I just wanted it again. And, and it was it was like that Hemingway quote, It was gradually and then suddenly. You know, at first it was as prescribed, I took it, I got 30 pills, it took me a year to take them. Second year, I was taking one every night. Also as prescribed. By this by the third year, I my tolerance was rising. So I needed like one and a half or one and a quarter to get to sleep. And then probably by the end of that year, I was taking to a night to get to sleep. And then you know, six years in, which is when my addiction really took a hold of me I was taking as many as I could get at night. Interesting. And, and and also having to have like I would chip like the tips of the pills off and swallow them during the day. They wouldn't put me to sleep, but they would regulate my system because I was in detox and withdrawal without them. Wow, I needed to have some Ambien in my system at all times. But it couldn't be enough to get me loaded, or else I would go to sleep. So is this an I and Holly I was the parent association president at my kids school. I had just been asked to join the board. I was throwing dinner parties. I played tennis with the girls I was working out every day I was you know going to premieres so I had to fortify myself so that I could continue to live that life so no one would examine what was happening with me in the Ambien
Holly Shannon 32:14
you know a lot of people didn't realize the doctors said it was not addictive if you asked because I went on it to for postpartum depression so I'm you're preaching to the choir as they say, I did not run into the same level that you did. But the doctors were not very clear about that. And wow, that's a it's amazing how you created this like twisted routine to get through the day using it like little bits of it so that you could stay level and present and present a certain way. That Wow, I can't even imagine how hard that was for you.
Laura Cathcart Robbins 33:01
I mean, it was Herculean isn't the right word. It was more Sisyphus in you know, like that boulder that I just kept pushing up the hill, and I never got to the top. Every day required so much energy I was exhausted. I was exhausted but without Ambien. I couldn't sleep at this point I had messed up all like bludgeoned all those receptors that melatonin and like allow you and serotonin like everything that was good. My brain wouldn't release unless I took Ambien. I was in a constant state of anxiety without it.
Holly Shannon 33:37
Wow. So would you say then Ambien was the first was your gateway into it that maybe led to I don't know, other drugs or alcohol or something like that, or?
Laura Cathcart Robbins 33:48
Well, I mean, yeah, I mean, Ambien was the addiction. It didn't, it didn't lead me anywhere else. Eventually, I needed alcohol to boost it. I didn't drink just for drinking sake, kind of ever, except for in my 20s in that period that I described, which felt very typical.
Holly Shannon 34:06
Yeah, I think that was for sure. But
Laura Cathcart Robbins 34:09
But yeah, I kept you know, vodka in my rain boots in my closet so that I could drink enough to boost the ambience of fact to give it the kick that it needed, so that it would work the way I need it to work. So I mean, I went to treatment for an Ambien addiction. I hadn't. I wasn't doing opiates. I wasn't into cocaine. I wasn't, you know, I wasn't drinking. Aside from that I went to treatment to kick Ambien.
Holly Shannon 34:36
It's crazy. What a crazy story. Oh my gosh. You know, you just don't hear that. It's always about opioids and things like that. I mean, I like I said, I took Ambien so like, it feels it's so accessible to everybody like you just don't think of it as something that somebody would need to get sober from I just don't
Laura Cathcart Robbins 35:01
know. And, and I always like to mention that it's a good drug when it's used as prescribed, it can be a really effective drug for a lot of people. It's not meant to be used for more than 10 days in a row ever. It's supposed to reset your system. And for that purpose is excellent. And for most people, it is not habit forming when used as prescribed. Right. But I use it so far out of prescription, the doctors were lenient, because I had, I had, you know, my inability to sleep prior to the Ambien was was so great. And my anxiety that came with the inability to sleep was so great. I really felt like I was I needed it in order to show it for my family the way that I want it to.
Holly Shannon 35:48
And the doctors do what they need to do. Yeah. Because you were good at building the facade. Right? Excellent at it. Yeah. Are you still building them?
Laura Cathcart Robbins 36:00
Oh, no, gosh, I've been. It's like I built a city. And I've been taking it down stone by stone
Holly Shannon 36:06
for the last 15 years. Nice. No, no. Yes. Building
Laura Cathcart Robbins 36:09
cleared and I've got this building cleared. And yeah, no, I am not building them anymore. I
Holly Shannon 36:15
am dismantling it all.
Laura Cathcart Robbins 36:18
I am dismantling it in its work it is it's not like, poof, it's gone. I have to you know, it's it's that chop wood carry water thing. You know, sometimes just keeping my head down and doing the work. And I happen to be with a man who I've been with for the last almost 15 years, who is the opposite of me, he never had a front. He never presented himself as anything other than he was. And because we met in treatment. When I finally went in July of 2008, I was not trying to impress him at all, like I wasn't fronting there because I didn't care about it. People. Right, right. And I was devastated. I was just devastated to be there. But so he met me without the facade. And that's who he was first attracted to. And that's how, who is now falling in love with. And so yeah, I am I, I learned from him how to be myself. Because that's the, that's the person he appreciates the most.
Holly Shannon 37:29
Hey, coffee lovers, I have two quick announcements. I am opening a YouTube channel at Holly Shannon. And I'm going to have all of coffee culture on there. So you can capture the little shorts for five minutes here and there. Or you can capture the full length interviews. Also, my book zero to podcast is on Amazon, and it's on my website. And it is the How To Guide to start your podcast really fast and get your voice and ideas on iTunes and Spotify like I did, makes a great holiday gift for you perhaps a graduation present. Or maybe it's your New Year's resolution. Both links are in the show notes. And now back to our show coffee culture.
There's another piece of connection I'd like to tap into. Again, it was a real that I listened to that you posted where we identify ourselves as mother, sister, spouse, lover, friend, all of these different things. And because we live to a lot of us live in that place of identity. Right? Who are we? Yeah. And if somebody asks you, oh, I'm a wife. I'm a mother, you know, we fall into that. So the real that sparked to me was you had gone to the grocery store. And you instinctively went to put milk in your cart, and you don't even like milk. In fact, we know you like oat milk. And it was really, I actually had a moment when you're talking about that, that you identified. You know you were part of a couple that was your identification. You were the wife half of have this and in doing so you would go to the grocery store and you would get milk like that was part of your life. And I know this seems like a strange thing to back into this. But what I sensed is at that moment, and here's where connection comes in for me. You lost your connection to self to who you actually were, and you couldn't necessarily fall back On the the identities that are, you know, are in our back pocket, you show up to a cocktail party and someone says, oh, so what do you do? Or who are you? And right away you fall. I'm a podcaster. I'm a writer, I'm a wife. I'm a mother, whatever. And you had like this existential crisis with a carton of milk. I did go. Can I ask you to share a little about that?
Laura Cathcart Robbins 40:26
Yeah, absolutely. And thank you for asking me about that. I think, you know, I read this article a couple years ago about role exhaustion for women that we are at, we occupy so many different roles that is just exhausting for us. And it really hit home for me, I identify so strongly with that. And I remember when actually on the board, where I actually still sit, I'm still on the board of that school. When I was a couple years sober, they had us do this exercise where they asked you you've probably done this at some point, I think it's like a corporate retreat thing, where they ask you who you are over and over again. So like the first three times you can answer any way. They like, who are you? I'm Laura Cathcart. Robin's I'm you know, a mom, I'm blah, blah, blah. The second time you answer you can't answer with a roll. So you have to answer with something else. And then third time you answer you can't answer you can't repeat any of your previous answers. So you go really deep.
Holly Shannon 41:33
We are Adams We are energy bouncing off of
Laura Cathcart Robbins 41:36
exactly what it was really a struggle for me because I had, as I talked about, I don't know if I mentioned this, but I gave up my PR company when my kids were born. And I was a full time mom, I was a full time wife. You know, I was not a writer. Professionally, I was not anything professionally. I was a mom, professionally. And I, I was you know, identified heavily with being you know, my ex husband wife, like that was. And that was a great identity. As soon as I said it, people were like, Oh, wow, you know, they saw me differently. They treated me differently. Because I was his wife. And that felt really good beard. Because I knew it wasn't about me. But I still got all the goodies. I got all the perks of being you know, in this marriage. And, and being my my kids mom, like, my, my being their mom, you know, oh, they're such good boys. And they're so cool. I love your son. Like that felt like credit for me. Right. And so I took
Holly Shannon 42:45
I was son to I get it.
Laura Cathcart Robbins 42:47
Yeah, yeah. And I'm sure there was a lot of ego feeding in that for me like it was it felt really good and to be kind of on this pedestal in my in my community where I held a leadership position in the school community. And then in one fell swoop over a summer, get divorced, and go to treatment for drugs and alcohol. Felt like all of a sudden, I'm a nobody. You know, I'm not his wife anymore. My my, my perfect motherhood will be under fire because what kind of perfect mother does drugs and goes to treatment. That's ridiculous. And, and I don't have a job. So I really don't have an identity. I compartmentalize that when I first got sober, I couldn't think about all that I just had to do what was in front of me because it was overwhelming, of course. But when I was in so this is like I'm a couple of months divorced and what I that, that, that story you're talking about, and a few months over, and the boys are at practice and I you know, leave them at practice and run to the grocery store to get what we need for that night. And I'm there in front of the in the dairy section and I pull that milk carton out. And my hand actually I don't even pull it out. My hand hesitates before I can grab it. And I'm seized with this, this idea that this isn't for you. Who are you buying this for? Kids don't drink it. You don't like it? Who is it for? And I start crying. And I'm kind of paralyzed there. You know, like the very helpful people that are stocking the different cases. One of them like I mean, I don't remember exactly what he said, but it was along the lines of Are you okay? Is there anything? I think he said, Is there anything I can help you with? I think that's what
Holly Shannon 44:47
it all was sweet though. Right? Very nice to know there's some humanity left.
Laura Cathcart Robbins 44:54
And I'm sure you know, they don't want people crying in their store. Yeah, right. Good for business. I
Holly Shannon 45:01
decided to build a doorbell. It's horrible.
Laura Cathcart Robbins 45:03
But I had that realization. Like, if this isn't for you, what is for you? What do you like? What do you want in your refrigerator? What do you want in your life? Who do you want to be? And it, it was all in those brief moments with my hand, you know, hesitating over a carton of milk. That, and I don't know if I would describe it as a crisis. But it was more of like a breakthrough. Like a realization, like it broke through all the compartments that I had built, to kind of keep myself safe. And I had this realization that this is something to look at now. You're a few months sober, you're a little bit out of this marriage. Start looking at who you are. And so that part of my work of the many pieces of aspects of my work and this is all spiritual work. I'm talking about or, or health like self care. I don't know if I would call it spiritual but but not logistical not work for not not transactional work. That work began then.
Holly Shannon 46:25
Incredible. And do you feel grounded that you have found that sense of self through that journey?
Laura Cathcart Robbins 46:34
I definitely know what I like now.
Holly Shannon 46:39
Yesterday, you were asking yourself bigger questions and the milk, right? So I know
Laura Cathcart Robbins 46:44
what I like, not just to eat and to drink, but I know what I like in my life. I don't say yes out of obligation anymore. If I say yes to something that I don't want to do, you're gonna be very, you're gonna be very, you're gonna get a very clear explanation explanation as to why I'm doing it. Like, I hate spa days. I hate baby showers and bachelorette parties. There's so not my thing. Are my friends know this about me now? I used to go anyway. And just pretend like I liked them. Now they know this about me. So when they invite me, it'll be with, we'd love to see you there. But I understand how you feel about them. So if you don't want to show up, you don't have to. And then sometimes I'll say No, I don't like them. But I'm coming for you. Because I want to support you, and love so they know that I'm not there enjoying myself, like everybody else just booing and eyeing over each baby gift that's opened, which I find to be torturous. Yes, I'm there. Right. I am coming there because I love them. And I want to support them. So I'm very clear about that. So that there isn't any mistake, and and I'm clear about everything that I can that that I can be clear about. Anyway, everything that I'm aware of, I'm clear about.
Holly Shannon 48:01
It's amazing. The power of the word yes. And equally as such the power of the word no. And I know I think was Shonda Rhimes that wrote that book my year of Yes, yeah. Yes. Yeah. And I have often threatened to myself quietly I haven't said it out loud. But I guess I am saying out loud now. That I would like to write a book. For myself. That is a year of Yes. And a year of no.
Laura Cathcart Robbins 48:39
Yeah, so important.
Holly Shannon 48:41
Exactly. Exactly. It's it's great that you found your a year of no. Yeah, like when when to say no like your for you? It was simultaneous, right? You always said yes. To things you didn't like to do. And And now you say yes and no. Yes. Even in the same breath. But you you understand? Yes, I will come? No, I do not like the baby shower. Yes. I'm coming for you. Like you have such clarity on it now, which is really great.
Laura Cathcart Robbins 49:12
Yes. And that that is the result of this work and the distance I think, for me from from drugs and alcohol. I think that distance was painfully clear, but made things painfully clear for a while and now that there's no pain involved. It's just clear.
Holly Shannon 49:30
Or is there anything I'm not asking you, Laura?
Laura Cathcart Robbins 49:36
Oh gosh. I don't know. I we didn't we didn't really talk about Scott. We could talk about him a little bit if you want. Yeah,
Holly Shannon 49:48
absolutely. Share.
Laura Cathcart Robbins 49:50
So the reason i i I like to talk about him for a variety of reasons. You know, like I said, we met in treatment in July of 2008. So it's almost 15 years now. And then, you know, the, what we did was we went back to Utah, where he's from, I came back to LA, eventually he moved here and lived separately from me. For six years, we dated for six years. And, and then we moved in together, we really want it to take care of our respective kids. He has two daughters, I have two sons. I wanted my sons to feel safe in their home, I had already, I had already but we had disrupted that safety by their dad not living with us anymore. And I wanted them to not feel like someone else moved in. Even though it wouldn't be to take his place, but just in that place. And a lot of people, you know, disagree, like you've got to be you got to do you, you've got to find your happiness. But this is the way we chose to do it. So he was available to his daughters, and I was available to my sons and I devoted my self to their care and attention during those years. And when I decided to write this book, which was in the summer of 2020. He was kind of like, okay, we've got the podcast going, you know, we've got to he cuz he produces the podcast. He's also my engineer. He's like, oversee, he oversees all of the social media, the YouTube, the website, most of the marketing. In fact, all the marketing, I just show up with the mic and the guest like that. So
Holly Shannon 51:35
man, I want your job now. We're Scott, can he come help me?
Laura Cathcart Robbins 51:43
Downstairs. But when I decided to really write this book in earnest when I had an agent who said, how quickly can you write this? Which happened in November of 2020? I, I was like, okay, hon, that's what I call him. If I'm going to get this done, I'm just going to devote myself to it. So my plan is to work on the podcast until 11, like, do my meditation, do my workout? Work on the podcast until 11? And then from 11 to seven, right? And I was like, Is that okay with you with that? That doesn't leave much time for us. And I'm aware of that. But I don't know how to get this done. Otherwise, I don't know how to do it piecemeal. I don't know if I would be able to complete it. If I did it here and there. And we really talked about it. He didn't just say, oh, yeah, I'm 100% supportive. We we really discussed the impact that it would have on our relationship. And we did that for a few days. And, you know, he came back to the table with like, I'm going to support you. However you need to be supported during this time. And so I went to work, and so did he. So he you know, I worked on the podcast with him. Then he finished everything else. Then Holly, I went vegan. I went vegan three years ago. So he decided to go vegan with me. After a couple days of protest, and goes grocery shopping
Holly Shannon 53:19
and a steak. Right.
Laura Cathcart Robbins 53:22
He went grocery shopping while I was working. i He came home. He took care of everything in the house. He cooked me dinner every night that I was working, called me down for dinner at seven when it was time for me to knock off. And he did that the entire time I wrote this book. What a gift. What a gift. What a gift. We have a sober home. Yeah, he's been sober this time. You know, like we we've been sober together. We have a meeting in our house recovery meeting every Saturday. So my kids have grown up in a sober home. Their Dad's not sober. So they've also grown up in his home and there's very, you know, kind of just like typical drinking that happens there. It's not excessive, it's fine. But they know that both are possible. They know that you can absolutely have a you know, my ex husband's side of the family is Jewish. So there's like, you know, all the High Holidays there's usually wine involved Manischewitz which I found to be delicious.
Holly Shannon 54:25
Oh my god, you're killing me. That is like the worst. That's like Nyquil. To me.
Laura Cathcart Robbins 54:30
It's all nobody likes it. More of it. I loved it. It was like sweet as grape juice. But anyway,
Holly Shannon 54:36
that's because you were used to putting all the sugar in your coffee.
Laura Cathcart Robbins 54:39
We'll circle back to that. So but so they've grown up with both they know that I have a ton of fun. I love my trips and my vacations. You know we have Sunday dinner at my house every weekend. I mean, every Sunday we have dinner here with his daughters if they're in town with my sons with My mom with my brother with my son's girlfriends, like we gather, and we have a great time every Sunday, and there's nothing missing, you know, with the fact that I'm sober, they're not ashamed of it, they understand it, they understand why they're grateful for it. And they don't need to talk about it. Like, it doesn't need to be the subject of discussion, but they're happy to explain it to anybody who asks, I've heard them do that in this very kind of matter of fact, way. Usually. Brief, no, my mom doesn't drink anymore. You know, she's she, she stopped drinking years ago, she got sober. And that's it. That's all the required explanation. They're great fans of Scott because he makes me happy. So they want, obviously, I think, I don't know if obviously, but my boys want me to be happy there. They've moved on. You know, they both moved out. They have their lives with their girlfriends. And I think it gives them a sense of solace, knowing that Scotty is here with me. And I like being alone. Honestly, I love my own company. But but I you know, I love having a companion as well. And I think that is helpful for them. I think that's comfort,
Holly Shannon 56:14
huh? Definitely. I think so too. You just, I just love how centered you are. It's really amazing. I think that a lot of people will see themselves in the pages of your book. And um, I can't tell you how thankful I am that our interview landed on this day, it was maybe just a coincidence. But I was so excited for you. So great. Congratulations on your book.
Laura Cathcart Robbins 56:43
Thank you, Holly. Thank you so much.
Holly Shannon 56:45
This is awesome. I'm gonna put all the stuff in the show notes. So everybody can find you and follow you and get your book. I will go get mine as well, because I haven't had a chance. So I look forward to learning even more about you, Laura. Thank you for coming out and coffee culture. Thank you for having me. Would you like to join the party coffee lovers. I have two ways for you. Please go over to YouTube now and subscribe to at Holly Shannon. And there'll be all the videos of this podcast there as well. What's the second way you can do that? You can leave a review with your ideas in Apple podcasts. Either way, I would love it if you share a hot cup of connection and coffee culture with a friend. And if you'd like to support this indie podcaster you can buy me a coffee the link is in the show notes. Thank you coffee lovers
this season is produced by pale blue studios