Holly Shannon

View Original

Caffeine Mistakes and Health Hacks with Coffee over Cardio

See this content in the original post

Episode Notes

Mike Crowson is the owner of Fit Legacy Marketing Agency and Coffee Over Cardio®. Mike has created a powerhouse e-commerce coffee company where we has now 2 major licensing deals with Dippin' Dots® and FRUITY PEBBLES®. An Alabama native, he decided to move to New York City to chase his dreams of becoming an entrepreneur when he was 22. From taking the leap in his at the time Fitness career to New York > LA > Dallas, a decade later has the stories to tell how he came from jobless to building a recognizable social media brand and how he continues helps others do the same!

1. Largest consumable product next to oil!

2. Black Rifle Coffee model and niche

3. Building a strategy before the product, finding the audience first. Waited for customer to say what they wanted.

4. Light roast has more caffeine than dark roast, find out why!

5. Millennial female and fit audience, subscriptions, flavors: Happy Camper, Red Velvet, Coconut Cream Pie, Pumpkin Spiced Latte is called Basic AF, Messy Bun

6. Nutrition advice, mindset, morning routines

7. Health and hydration, caffeine is a diuretic and dehydrates too, how much water should you consume? Hydration products, electrolytes.

8. Caffeine is an appetite suppressant, autophagy, fasting, sleeping fast

9. Fitness and body building, electrolytes and coffee

10. Nootropic (something for mental clarity and focus) creamers, Creatine.

11. Limitations of flavoring creamers and protein powder

12. Collagen in the coffee for protein and microbiome health.

13. Paleo, keto, vegan, coconut powder, dairy free

14. Business problems with flavors and sweeteners, calorie free options

15. Messy Bun and Doctor's Orders (vanilla hazelnut) are the bestsellers!

16. Next frontier of flavors. Collaborations!

17. Changing the recipe for dark roast lovers, meeting expectations for caffeine and flavor. Burned beans remove the caffeine and make it harder to digest! Higher acidity?

18. Retail cafe shops in the future? Reach out to Mike Crowson to discuss! Coffee pop-ups?

Mike Crowson on Instagram

Coffee over Cardio on Instagram

Build Your Legacy

Our episode on Youtube

Buy Me a Coffee

Holly Shannon’s Website

Zero To Podcast on Amazon

Holly Shannon's new Youtube Channel, Subscribe here!

Holly Shannon, Instagram

Holly Shannon, Linkedin

Holly Shannon, Twitter

Cleveland Clinic and Low Acidity of Coffee 

#Coffee #barista #pumpkinspicedlatte #Starbucks #DunkinDonuts #blackcoffee #darkroast #lightroast #latte #macchiato #cappuccino #espresso#centralperk #Bulletproof #howtomakecoffee #coffeebeans #coffeedate #virtualcoffee #coffeebreak #coldbrew #coffeemachine #coffeegrinder #connection #community #frenchpress #coffeehousemusic #cafe #arabica #espresso #cuppajoe #decaffeinated #caffeine #coffeeaddiction #cappuccino

Transcript

Holly Shannon 0:06 

Hello coffee lovers. So why am I here? My love of coffee started with my grandparents hiding coffee candies in their pockets. Finding those little rap treasures ingrained that flavor into my memory, along with a sense of love and connection. We're all drawn to the experiences that shape our lives. Coffee has those stories. It invites that connection. It's probably why cafes around the world are packed. Do you want to feel the energy of people and wrap our hands around a hot cup of connection? Enter the coffee meetup, coffee, the consummate excuse. You might not even drink it. But it's a tool of figurative concept of vehicle to connect. Coffee Culture, the podcast is your new place for that. There'll be short episodes and full interviews. Come for the coffee meetup and stay for the connection. I'm your host, Holly Shannon. Hello coffee lovers. today. I have Mike Crowson with me today. And I would like to present him. He's sort of an interesting case in terms of how he got into this market. But we will dive into that. Hello, Mike. How are you? 

Mike Crowson 1:29 I'm doing great. Thanks for having me. 

Holly Shannon 1:31 so on. So coffee culture is season five. For me. And I feel that there's there's two things that are very relevant. The coffee meetup, which we use for all different things from the coffee date to the business networking, type of virtual coffee thing. And I also know it's a lot about the brew because there's a lot of people who just really love coffee, right? And they use maybe coffee is just the excuse, right? So I want to go back in time with Mike and I want to find out when your first coffee experience was 

Mike Crowson 2:13 my my first coffee experience, I have to say as a teenager inside of my own house, it was not pleasant. It was you know, the coffee that your parents drink which is often super black and bitter and obviously it's an acquired taste something we have to come to know and love and create our own concoction. But I have to say probably around 15 years old wanting to try something I was like, Oh, this isn't for me. 

Holly Shannon 2:40 But you you persevered 

Mike Crowson 2:43 Yeah, you know it probably wasn't until my mid 20s where I started to explore the ideal a bit more and then started to find different things besides like because obviously like there's more than one way to do things and oftentimes because we're parents do it like that's how we do it. And as I explored more and obviously like now I'm going to different coffee shops and seeing like oh there's a thing called a latte and I all these other pieces then basically found what I want so when I go out my go to now is either a latte, or I'll do a cappuccino. Okay, and not using obviously my own stuff my own house. Okay, 

Holly Shannon 3:25 and is that regular coffee for you decaf any particular type. 

Mike Crowson 3:32 I prefer a light roast. Some things a little easier to palate. At the same time. I do like the caffeine as in a light roast a big misconception people think that a darker roast has more caffeine. That is not true. It's like alcohol. The more you cook the bean, the more that caffeine leaves. 

Holly Shannon 3:49 It's so funny that I'm so glad you brought that up because I've I've always known that and people don't seem to realize like I think that's probably my why I don't love Starbucks, because it smells the the beans are really over roasted. Like there's almost like a burnt scent to it. And I get like a light to medium roast really gives you more caffeine like more of a kick, right? 

Mike Crowson 4:18 Yeah, so essentially, the way that any kind of chain works is you have to have congruency across have every store location. Burnt bread tastes like burnt bread. I don't care if it's sourdough. Why are we burnt coffee tastes like burnt coffee. And when you have 27,000 locations all across the world. Obviously one farm cannot supply all of your beans. And so you have to get multiple sources from multiple countries, different climates, different types of beans. And the only way to bring that congruence here to get that one Starbucks cup is that they brew it really really hot, which then essentially burns it, giving it a consistent taste that you can get no matter where you go. 

Holly Shannon 5:00 Wow, I didn't know all that. That's really awesome. Thanks for sharing that. Now, I want to point out to everybody that Mike is the owner of Fit Legacy Marketing agency, and Coffee over Cardio. So I, that's why he knows so much about this. So Mike has created an E commerce company with two major licensing deals recently. So he knows what he talks about. And he also will put all the links in the show notes, but he also has a product that he has created. But before, before we go into what that product is, when I spoke with Mike, I learned that he approached this business in a very different way. And so I'm going to ask him to speak to that. But he almost worked in the reverse in that he found a niche, if you will. And then he created a product to suit that niche. And usually, as entrepreneurs, we have an epiphany about an idea like, this is the product I want to make. This is the type of coffee or whatever it happens to be. And then you go find your client. So Mike, do you want to share with us a little bit of the arc of that story? 

Mike Crowson 6:24 Yeah, absolutely. So it's funny enough, I actually just read this this morning inside Alex for moseys book. And it's finding a starving audience. You can be super persuasive, you can be an amazing salesman, you can have a great offer. But if you don't have an audience that wants it, it's falling on deaf ears. And I didn't really realize that until later, what had actually done. But the idea is I wanted to create something niche, something different, something unique, because you have oil, and then coffee. So it's the largest consumable commodity in the world. Obviously, that means there's a lot of competition. And so how do I compete with that? Well, I have to be different, I have to stand out. So I'm sure we have all heard of Starbucks, or excuse me, black rifle coffee, which is a really military base gung ho crowd. And they're super niche, and they're super successful. So I took a note from that. And then there's another company that I follow, that has amazing culture, and amazing community. And I was like, Okay, I'm gonna take that piece. From there, I'm gonna create that inside my company, not just sell a product, we're trying to build a united community. And there was another company I saw where they had the face of the company. And it was a very personal touch. So I took that aspect from that company. And lo and behold, we took a niche. So we wanted to go after women who drink Starbucks worked out millennial cared about their fitness didn't want to get the 400 Calorie latte from Starbucks, be able to find a community with other like minded women, and personal touch to it with a lot of different faces to the brand and influencers where it just wasn't about the product. But it's about people and you falling in love with the people that are part of the company. And lo and behold, we came up with coffee ricardio where we focused on really a marketing plan, and then products to follow. And so from the business strategy, it wasn't all about the product, as much as it was the strategy on who we were going after and what we're going to give them and then we let those customers tell us what they want. So we've started off with four different coffees, a messy bun, a chocolate donut, an organic roast, and a workflow dark roast that has higher caffeine than any other coffees. And then from there, the market told us Hey, we love these flavored coffees. So we develop the brand continuously to go after that niche so much so that we now have a subscription every month of a new flavored coffee every month. So for example, this month, it is smores called happy camper. Last month was Red Velvet month before that was coconut cream pie. So it's being fun and interesting and unique and different than everyone else at the market going after the audience that we wanted. 

Holly Shannon 9:26 What do you think about the pumpkin spice latte? 

Mike Crowson 9:29 Pumpkin Spice Latte is a really big seller for us. And again, this is just approving the fact of going down that niche so much so that our pumpkin spice is called Basic AF and people love that because it's you're right you're diving into it and that's me like I love everything about this. This isn't just a cup of coffee. It's, I look forward to it because I can relate to it. It's humorous, and it's not just another bag off the shelf that you get from the grocery store so it makes your morning experience just that much more fun and cute. You also too, when it comes to the branding aspect of things, the better your packaging, and the better it is, the more they're going to want to share online, which then helps your company grow organically and through word of mouth. Holly Shannon 10:11 Well, I saw you light up when you're talking about that, do you? Since you went and you found your customer? Have you tested with them or gotten their advice in terms of packaging, since it's very much a female, millennial active person, and you are not either female? Or well, maybe you're millennial and active, but like, it's a different mindset. So do you use your customers to dial into the the next direction you're going naming or packaging? Mike Crowson 10:46 Yeah, so we'll send out surveys, asking them what they're wanting to see, you know, different flavor suggestions. Ultimately, something that you'll come to find out as a business owner having already the customer is not always right. Because a lot of suggestions you get, do not pan out. So you got to understand your gut too. Because remember, you're the business owner. And just because somebody has an idea doesn't mean it's a great one. But it does also help you understand where they're coming from, what is they want? I mean, funnily enough, we sent out a survey yesterday. And I asked basically questions that will allow me to help them outside of just selling a coffee, but how can I help you in other aspects of your life. And we got feedback, saying they'd love nutrition advice. They'd love morning routines, they'd love mental health practices. So all these things that we can do outside of just selling product, but create things that they can use to better their everyday life. Holly Shannon 11:44 I love that. So I want to tap into that a little bit. So let's talk about hydration. And if we're going to talk about health, it is my understanding that coffee dehydrates you. And so for every cup of coffee you have, even though it's brewed with water and you think you're hydrating, you're really not. You need to have an additional cup of water to offset that. Is that correct? Mike Crowson 12:14 Um, yeah, obviously, that's going to vary per person. But any type of caffeine that you have is naturally a diuretic. But the biggest piece is not so much. I think the caffeine is it is the routine. And what I mean by that is a lot of people wake up, have a cup of coffee, it suppresses their appetite, which also suppresses your thirst. You get to the office, you go to work, you drop your kids off at school, it's 930 10am, he haven't had a cup of water yet. So the routine itself, the coffee is a byproduct that causes that to happen. But it's not necessary. The coffee's fault. It's that I'm not constantly drinking water and getting my day started. And you know, breaking the fast because we just slept six to eight hours with no water. And now we haven't had any for 10. Now we have been 12 hours. So if you went all day without drinking water, you'd be really parched by 6pm. However, that's happening, you just don't realize it because you've been sleeping. And your morning has basically appetites been stunted by that coffee. So it is super important to hydrate. And I always suggest first thing you do in the morning. We've heard it time and time again. Chug 1220 ounces of water, get your day started. thing get your coffee pot proven breakfast go in and start your day. Holly Shannon 13:29 Well, I definitely start my day with water but not 20 ounces, I don't think but I do drink a lot. And I noticed in your product line that you also leaned heavily into hydration products that don't just hydrate that offer like an electrolyte solution. So you absorb more of the water, if you will. And how did that come about? Was Was that to just complement the the coffee situation and the dehydration or that was just an epiphany with your clients that they were seeking that in addition to coffee. Mike Crowson 14:09 Yeah, so everything that we've created is something that I've experienced myself. And I used to be really big in the fitness used to compete as a bodybuilder inside the fitness world. And I had a coach at the time suggested that you need an electrolyte. And so I went and bought one cheap one off Amazon and I put it in my coffee, which basically if you don't know electrolyte is, is potassium, sodium, magnesium, other aspects like that. It dumped that right into my coffee. And I realized like, Oh, this is salty coffee, but I physically felt and solid difference in my appearance. And I went man, if I can see it, then internally it has to be tenfold better for me. Because if anytime we can see something on the outside On the inside, it's really turned in and something's really off, if you can see it on the outside. So that started the idea of like, okay, well, how can I create an electrolyte to put in my coffee, because sometimes we do not think, to drink that water or to start the day off, right, we just were going straight for that coffee pot, right, I need to wake up. And so by adding it into your coffee, we're able to do two things at the same time. And so we came out with a salted caramel, coffee, hydrate. And then it really just blew up from there. And now we have like 12 different flavors, some for water, some for coffee, we have water, because not everyone likes to sweet coffee in the morning, or sweet coffee at all, they prefer black. So we still wanted that same aspect because coffee over cardio like we, you know, we're advocates for fitness and a healthy lifestyle. And so we know we want our people to work out and exercise and getting in those electrolytes around that time period. So that's what we're current with the water version. But the same piece also goes for the, you know, creamer that we came out with as well. Is that how can I be better? And so when we came with the tropic creamer, the same concept, something I wanted for myself, I found to be beneficial friends found to be beneficial. So okay, let's take this to the market. 

Holly Shannon 16:21 Can you define a nootropic for the audience? Yeah, so, 

Mike Crowson 16:24 Nootropic is essentially something that's going to give you mental clarity, cognitive function, focus, it's like lighting the candle from the other end. So it's not a stimulant per se, as far as like making you jittery, or caffeine or energy in that way, but it's more of our alertness, waking you up turning your brain on. And it actually one of the ingredients that we use to cream actually works well with caffeine, extending the half life of it, making your coffee essentially lasts longer. 

Holly Shannon 16:58 Interesting, interesting. Have you done any research or added anything in regards to mushrooms like Chaga, reishi, or Lion's Mane, for example. 

Mike Crowson 17:09 Um, we have however, I haven't dabbled in that realm. So we use the patented ingredients, Teacrine cognizant and Huperzine. And so together remember to like I'm trying to flavor eight ounces of water or aka coffee, right. And so when you get into the mushroom side, there are a lot more bitter than any type of antigens are on the bitter side. So being that we only have 20 calories. And that's comes from coconut. I'm really limited on how I can flavor something. Because for example, obviously this is in the supplement health realm, right? When you have something like a protein powder, you've got 20 to 25 grams of protein a K 100 calories to have that flavor sit on. So for example, Apple Cinnamon Oatmeal, tastes much different than plain oatmeal because that Cinnamon has something to sit on. If you just put cinnamon in water, it would be very diluted not not taste very well. So because we don't have calories to sit on, we have to pick and choose those ingredients because we're only able to mask bitters, only so much. 

Holly Shannon 18:22 So you you brought up calories here, I kind of want to lean a little bit on protein as well. So like I put collagen in my coffee for the protein, but also because collagen has benefits in terms of your microbiome. And for your hair, skin nails, like it improves all of those things. So you look how much I'm glowing. No, just kidding. And I really, I like to do that. However, introducing protein into your morning coffee. See, this is my little health. I know just enough about health to be annoying at a party I always say. So adding protein into your coffee breaks the fast that Mike spoke of earlier, and a lot of people are trying intermittent fasting to gain more mental clarity actually and to help with their diet, streamlining their diet for different reasons. I'll get into intermittent fasting on another episode. I won't pull Mike down that rabbit hole necessarily but your products do they can contain protein that would offset in somebody who decides to intermittent fast. 

Mike Crowson 19:45 Right so all of our coffees are calorie free. There's nothing in those. We use an extract that you'd normally find inside a cake so like a vanilla or almond extract on top of the beans so calorie free. Not a problem there. The hydrates, essentially the same thing, we have one card that comes from calcium. So any electrolyte you have, is going to have that calcium in it, which is going to give you that carb, I don't think four calories, I would consider breaking a fast. And then with the SmartStart creamer, we do have the 20 or 25 calories depending on the flavor that you have. And so I guess technically it would be breaking the fast being that there are calories, however, we're talking 20 calories, and the entire point of that creamer is to give cognitive function, which is what you're trying to get out of it. But being that there is no protein, no carbohydrates, and that it is just the fat sources. That's discrepancy on the person, whether they find it worth it to break that fast for them or not. But you know, vegan, dairy free, keto friendly, essentially all the aspects, because we want to try to hit all markets that we can, 

Holly Shannon 21:02 yeah, no, I was gonna say you might actually still be intermittent fasting with your product. And it's probably something worth researching a little bit, only because I don't think it's so much about the calories, because you're sourcing them from fats and not from proteins. So I'm pretty sure like, for example, like bulletproof coffee, if you put butter or MCT oil in the coffee, and have that not 100% sure on this, I'm going to do some research. But I don't think it breaks the intermittent fasting, I think the the way your body processes that is it does not take it out of a state of what's called autophagy. 

Hey, coffee lovers, I have two quick announcements. I am opening a YouTube channel at Holly Shannon. And I'm going to have all of coffee culture on there. So you can capture the little shorts for five minutes here and there. Or you can capture the full length interviews. Also, my book zero to podcast is on Amazon, and it's on my website. And it is the How To Guide to start your podcast really fast and get your voice and ideas on iTunes and Spotify like I did makes a great holiday gift for you. Perhaps a graduation present. Or maybe it's your New Year's resolution. Both links are in the show notes. And now back to our show Coffee Culture. 

Have you had your clients ask you at all about fasting or I mean, you obviously said it's vegan keto and paleo is that because from the very beginning, your client was asking for that, or it was more by accident. 

Mike Crowson 22:55 So being from fitness background, we've tried to create anything that is easy to digest helps the individual including myself, right, so I'm limited to calories when I was doing these fitness shows. So I didn't want to add anything extra to that. Obviously, you know, everyone has different dietary restrictions, dairy being a big one. And so when we first get launched the product, we use the MCT oil that was agglomerated. And agglomerate essentially is allowing a product to dissolve in hot fluids, but soluble and most supplements aren't because they're meant to be made in water. But they spray dry them with whey and to keep them from sticking. And so whey protein foods don't know, which is dairy. So we have since changed from that to go to more of a just a coconut base. Now instead of using MCT oil, obviously MCT oil is derived from coconuts. But we use a coconut powder now instead just to be a little bit more inclusive to everyone. Even though the amount of dairy whether you have a intolerance or allergic depending on you know how much you're willing to work with that whether you can work with it at all. But products have developed over time. The only thing that we're not is we're not naturally sweetened. And we've had requests for that. But again, going back to the coffee piece, being able to flavor something inside it's such a small amount of water. We just cannot nail a flavor with the natural sweeteners with the nootropics in it. If I was just going to create a creamer that was just a flavor. Sure not a problem. But we haven't been able to nail down that piece and not using the sweeteners that we use to make To get an effective and good tasting part because like it can be effective, but if you don't like it, you're not going to drink it and then it doesn't help me or you. So we've had that would be our only one hiccup. But again, that's such a small percentage of people that I always said is like, if you're living such a healthy lifestyle that that's the one piece for you or you can't do it then that's I get that but I'm trying to get somebody from stopped drinking 400 Calorie latte from Starbucks. So for me it's one step at a time because you can't go from eating a whole pizza every day to salads everyday and edible lifestyle right so step by step process to get into a living a better life. 

Holly Shannon 25:43 What  sweetener do you use just a typical like cane sugar ?

Mike Crowson 25:47 Sucrolose. inside the it's just traditional across all supplements for the hydrate and the creamers. The coffees are not sweetened. They're just have extracts. So if that is of concern for anyone, then the coffee is would be the route to go. 

Holly Shannon 26:02 What's your best selling coffee 

Mike Crowson 26:05 I would have to say the Messy Bun and Doctor's Orders. Those also have the my favorites. But those are neck and neck each month they go back and forth the messy bun cinnamon bun, which is a half cinnamon, half hazelnut, and then our doctor's orders vanilla hazelnut, which is a half vanilla pathways on that. And those are both light roasts. 

Holly Shannon 26:25 So you get your your kick of caffeine and a little bit of flavor. Absolutely. Nice. Nice. What's on deck, what do you think is the next frontier of flavor for you? 

Mike Crowson 26:38 So um, this month, we will actually be releasing our first collaboration coffee with Dippin Dots. We're doing a cookies and cream, ultimate brownie batter, and a few other flavors inside their line. But what I'm really excited for is that we have a collaboration now with Fruity Pebbles and Cocoa Pebbles. And I've had these type of products before in the past when we were doing samplings and things. And so I'm really excited because it is unique, fun flavors. Obviously chocolate and coffee is always good. And then for the Fruity Pebbles. It's unique, but it's also very good as well. And I don't know if you've ever had like a blueberry coffee before. But it's really good and really unique. Because it's not what people think. And it's always like, you're very hesitant, because it's so different. But once you try to like, that's actually really good, that actually is surprising, because it isn't a new fresh note that you're normally not used to when it comes to the coffee world. Because there's always about decadent and never on the fruity side. So I'm really excited about those two pieces to come out for us. 

Holly Shannon 27:51 That's cool. I have to admit, honestly, I'm not a fruity pebbles or you know, blueberry flavor or anything like that. It's just not me. But I like that you have a spectrum of things like you, you have the pure side, you have just the coffee. I think you had like four or so different coffees that were unflavored Is that correct? And is that what you started with before you started doing the flavors? 

Mike Crowson 28:21 we did two flavors to non flavors. And then again, the flavors held their own it because it's different, right? Because if you want to get normal coffee, you just go get normal coffee. Because it's hard to sell the idea of like just coffee has itself and that's why we had to go different and be niche. And so I've got a French toast coffee. You can't get that anywhere else. Obviously pumpkin spice, right. But, you know, next month in the secret stash, we're doing a ganache flavor. We're calling it oh my gosh. 

Holly Shannon 28:57 You should launch that at Hanukkah, because it does have a little Jewish bent to it. 

Mike Crowson 29:03 So the idea essentially is just to come up with those fun, unique pieces. We do have something for everyone. My dad even drinks our coffee. He loves the morning y'all which is our breakfast blend tonight sharing note. He also enjoys the workflow being it's a 75% Dark Roast so we get that nice taste, but it has 25% of Guatemala wbn which gives it a lot of caffeine kick. So it's 156 milligrams of caffeine inside of dark posts which is contradictory to the first statement that we said that darker roast have lighter caffeine or less caffeine. So we try to find something for everyone but 90% of our people come to us for those light roasts, those flavored roasts. 

Holly Shannon 29:49 That's kind of interesting how you change the recipe to sort of meet the palate that enjoys a darker roast flavor like a richness but Um, without losing the caffeine. So that's, that's really interesting that you change the recipe to suit that. I like that. What the biggest consumption 

Mike Crowson 30:10 is like when people's like, Man, I love me a good dark roast. And I'm like, so do you like do searching for caffeine? Or some nice bowl strong, you know, pungent taste? No, I want the caffeine, I'm like, well, technically, you're not doing that you think you are because it's stronger tasting. So surely, it's got to be more caffeine. And so like, it wakes me up more? Well, there's two ways to wake up, upset your stomach, because it's a dark roast. And so your stomach is gonna essentially be churning to digest that harsher bean and that harsher liquid that you just put in it, which is then going to wake you up. But then you also have the caffeine wake up. So it's two different pieces. And it's, again, just a misconception on what it is that they're actually getting versus what's actually happening to them. 

Holly Shannon 30:58 Let me ask you a question. You may or may not know the answer to this, but you're saying would upset the stomach? The darker roast? Is it also hot? Like a higher acidity? The darker the roast? Or am I just making that up? Yes, I'm making it up, or yes, it is. 

Mike Crowson 31:14 I'm sorry. I'm fairly certain that it is now that you're questioning about it. But I'm, I'm fairly certain that it is the higher acidity with the darker the rose.  

Holly Shannon 31:27 Alright, I'll have to do a little research, we 

Mike Crowson 31:28 can throw home and do that. Please, 

Holly Shannon 31:29 don't hold me to it either. I'm just asking the question because you said how it could upset the stomach and I'm like, Oh, well, maybe that's the key, maybe that's what makes it higher and acidity. 

Mike Crowson 31:39 But also, the more something's cooked, the harder it is to digest, right, we digest sugar like that, it's easy, it's breaking down, you eat a raw potato, you're gonna have a lot more enzymes, a lot more stomach acid to break down that hard substance. And so it's just a tougher material to, to try to break down inside your stomach in your gut. So whenever something's cooked darker, it's it's, it's more hardened. And so you're having this same thing you're trying to digest that liquid. That is much more difficult than the light roast would be 

Holly Shannon 32:13 interesting. Okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna definitely do a little research.

Mike Crowson 32:17 So that's essentially like, so that breaks down to the same thing as like simple sugars versus complex carbs. It's how fast your stomach can break it down. Well, coffee essentially is the same way by whether it's, you know, raw bread, I say raw, not toasted versus toasted or burnt? Like there is a difference isn't a lot? Not really. But there is a difference between the two. And so that's essentially what I'm trying to get out there. 

Holly Shannon 32:49 Excellent. So I definitely think the flavored coffees are, you know, obviously, so well received. And I think a lot of places are trying to become very unique in the flavors they create, just like you're doing. So you're definitely on to something I mean, I go here in Georgetown to blue bottle, and they introduced a black cardamom latte. And for me, I feel like it's a sophisticated version of a pumpkin spice latte. Like it's, it's another tip take on like a harvest, kind of lever and note. So it's without a doubt not going anywhere. So Mike, you have captured a very attentive market. And I love that your business strategy was in reverse that you went and found something that people were looking for before you went and created it. So I think you're on to something or we don't need me to tell you that but 

Mike Crowson 33:58 I got a question for you. You might know you might not know Do you know the type of being or essentially the source from Blue Bottle? I believe there is an Ethiopian being 

Holly Shannon 34:09 it's a really good question. I think they source from a few different I know there's different varieties out there. Because I've been in there and I remember seeing like all the bags and they were different Fairtrade sources. I would have to probably go on their website or pull up the picture I took in the store of all the coffee's to answer that question. 

Mike Crowson 34:34 So a little, little nugget for those listening. I found in my own research that the the climate in which the bean has grown, the more moisture it has, the more palatable The coffee will be. So it'll be a little more bitter if it's in a drier region. And it'll be a little more softer and smoother and a I'm more moisturize region. So for example, like all the coffees we get for our flavored stuff come from Costa Rica, because the bitterness is not going to overpower the flavor, and it's more of a mellow bean, which allows that flavor to really pop through. And we are right 

Holly Shannon 35:17 and more moisture in Costa Rica. Okay, 

Mike Crowson 35:19 right. Versus I've done the Ethiopian being still a great coffee, we used to do it for our cold brew packs that were discontinued. And it's a it's a great tasting coffee, it's just a little bit more on that drier, bitter side, in comparison to being a lot smoother and more mellow from the other beans that we've gotten from the South America regions. 

Holly Shannon 35:44 Interesting. So you, so you have a few different beans that you use based on the flavor you're trying to achieve. So you 

Mike Crowson 35:56 stop the type of roast. So all of our flavor coffees, we use the same base, we use that Costa Rican, 100% Arabica, and then we have Brazilian, we have Guatemalan, we use having Doris, we don't have those anymore. Those are our main three. And whether it's flavored or not, is depending on which ones we'll use to really capture the notes we're trying to get. 

Holly Shannon 36:21 Cool. So what's the next frontier for coffee over cardio, the little pop up shops may be where people could get more unique experience, because we know the cafe is is the play of the day, right? 

Mike Crowson 36:38 Absolutely. So we first started, the idea was to go online, and then create three to five shops ourselves, and then just franchise out and go from there. Because, you know, we wanted to create those French toast lattes and those weekly pieces where it's a revolving menu, super fun, super cute. And just all around us a nice experience. That's not your typical coffee shop. I've also come to realize like how hard it is, whenever you're running to different businesses to Okay, I'm gonna go work in a coffee shop, and become a barista and all these things. So for myself, it is in the, in the future, something I want to do, I think it just finding the right person to partner with that can take that on, because I have no experience in the retail space. So finding the right partner to take that on. And that can execute that with my input, you know, but then handling the management of employees and how to run a retail location and things like that. So it is something I want to do it is in the works. And that that application is open for those that are interested in that. 

Holly Shannon 37:53 Well, I didn't mean to send you down the rabbit hole. I was just curious where you were headed with that. So that's really cool. And you never know, right? Yeah. Who's who's listening to this? We're on YouTube now at Holly Shannon. So definitely jump in and join us. And I thank you, Mike, this was really amazing. We got a little bit of how you went about your marketing strategy for this business, the E commerce side of it, and the science side of it and health. So I feel like we we hit all of the points that people find very interesting about coffee. This is really great. Thank you, Mike. Thanks for coming on coffee culture. 

Mike Crowson 38:36 Absolutely. Thanks for having me. 

Holly Shannon 38:43 Share your thoughts and ideas on coffee culture. You could put them in the reviews on Apple podcasts, or DM me on Instagram. And if you'd like to support an indie podcaster there is the link in the show notes for buying me a copy. Please subscribe and share a cup of coffee culture with your friends. This season is produced by pale blue studios